Shrinking Into Convalescence

[Nyati]

I think we should also fight a very common misconception about trophy hunters.

The recurring message I have lately read in the press and the internet is that we are " filthy rich types going to Africa with our thick wallets, who believe they can just do whatever they want, including illegally killing dear old Cecil just for the pleasure of putting him on our wall".

Sincerely this is just plain envy I don´t think those who make this kind of comments care about a lion or any animal, but they do about the fact that some people have a fair amount of money to spend on a hunt.

We should explain to the general public that most of us are just common middle class types who have to save to be able to afford a hunt, and that we obey the law of the land where we hunt.

But it´s not easy to fight envy !

 

[Royal27]

The big population centers. Probably not much need to promote our agenda in much of Alaska but we would expect funding to come from there.

One of the best things we as individuals can do is marry the right kind of spouse to begin with and from there, raise our children to be free thinkers like we are, so they will not fall for all this Earth Worship /Green Movement propaganda.

Here is the challenge as I see it. This isn't a quick easy fix for the reasons mentioned above.

1. Culture of suburbia is all many of these folks know
2. Hunting, like many things, has to be passed down and isn't something that most people just "get" without exposure (some do, but I bet 90% of us grew up in hunting families)

People have to get involved and I'm not sure how you do that with PR? What message is it that we want to send? People want to help other people, animals, places, you name it.

How though, do we convince people that we want to help when they have such terrible misconceptions of what we do and why?

I'm not arguing the need for PR, but more pointing out how difficult and complex of an emotional issue this is for most people. We love talking about the facts and I agree that we should, but this is definitely an emotional issue. Not defending DSC or SCI at all for their quiet and weak response to the recent issues, but perhaps there is a good reason they haven't done more.... One thing I DON'T believe in is doing something for the sake of doing something.

We definitely need to do something urgently and need leadership. I'm just not sure what the something is, or where the leadership will come from.

 

[enysse]

It might take a consolidated effort by every main hunting organization to spread the good word of wildlife conservation. But every wallet is stretched as it is.....and you are going to fight a force where the pocket are deep and they get free help from the brainwashed media. As it is states are stealing money from hunter's and fisherman's fund to pay state budget problems. They are not funding land purchases any more and are in fact using hunter's dollars from out of state for budget problems. And again we are outnumbered, if we were not, this BS wouldn't happen in the first place.

 

[johnnyblues]

This is EXACTLY why I got into hunting. Because of the work I do, I spend 12+ hours a day in front of a computer. I needed something to "get me back to nature" for my mental and physical health.



I am not against PR campaigns but I think the best approach is do win the hearts and minds of of the non-hunters is on an individual basis. The best way to solve a big problem is to break it down to a bunch of small ones. If every hunter had a goal to convert a least one non-hunter into a hunter in their life time and just see the impact that makes.

I agree brushmore. Problem is it's too late. It's become a typhoon for the antis. We need professional advise on how to handle the public. Trying to reach one at a time is what I have always tried to do. But society being what it is today with the tidal wave of anti hunting sentiment on the net and all over the liberal media we now need to reach the masses. The days of just speaking to your neighbors who don't hunt and try to make nice by giving them some venison are gone. We are grossly out numbered. All I know is if the big boys don't get off their asses and find a way to promote and educate the public our sport will suffer like never before.

 

[johnnyblues]

Many different companies need to get on board, rifle makers, ammo, Cabelas and all involved in the outdoors.

Man I've been saying that here for months. They stand to loose in a big way if hunting goes bye bye.

 

[Royal27]

Man I've been saying that here for months. They stand to loose in a big way if hunting goes bye bye.

Hunting isn't going bye bye. No way. WAY too much money and other benefits (governments arent going to give up all that revenue from licensing! !!) Do we need do to more to make sure parts of it aren't hurt? Yes. Are we losing the PR war to the antis? Yes. Are there more people who don't hunt than people that do? Yes.

That doesn't mean though that hunting as an overall institution is at risk.

 

[johnnyblues]

Hunting isn't going bye bye. No way. WAY too much money and other benefits (governments arent going to give up all that revenue from licensing! !!) Do we need do to more to make sure parts of it aren't hurt? Yes. Are we losing the PR war to the antis? Yes. Are there more people who don't hunt than people that do? Yes.

That doesn't mean though that hunting as an overall institution is at risk.

I hope your right my friend. Remember who's in charge of this country nowadays. Liberal anti hunting thinkers.

 

[Royal27]

I hope your right my friend. Remember who's in charge of this country nowadays. Liberal anti hunting thinkers.

True. And they want our vote and our money. If I thought they actually cared about what they purport to believe in, as opposed to staying in power, then I'd be worried!!!!

Don't take me wrong. I don't think that all is well in our world, but I don't think we are nearing the end either. All the more reason to have a sense of urgency now actually, before the problem gets even bigger.

 

[ActionBob]

Do any of you guys think we would have these bans imposed under 'ol GW?

 

[Royal27]

Do any of you guys think we would have these bans imposed under 'ol GW?

Probably as they were put in place by bureaucrats.

But, they would have been "corrected" by now.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Political appointees go a long way. I seriously doubt it would have happen under Bush. It is amazing the difference on how our national refuges are managed now compared to the Bush administration.

With that being said I have no confidence that anything will change with a new administration.

 

[ActionBob]

Those bureaucrats all have the presidents picture along with whichever cabinet secretary is in charge of their agency hanging prominently in the offices. They know which side their bread is buttered on and how far they should go. other than the EPA anyway. There is a definite trickle down effect in those agencies.

 

[enysse]

No, I don't think under Republican leadership, hunters would be going through some of hoops we do know, because they understand business. But Bush did allow the polar bear ban. But the ban on elephant trophies is the most stupid thing I have heard to date....they are not threatened or endangered.

 

[Scott Slough]

by Kai-Uwe Denker



I have a strong feeling that it is time to cut old plaits. The principle of adding “value to wild animals” has not proven itself – it is just too prone to abuse, and with that creating the hotbed for fanatics. We should sit back and open-mindedly consider admitting that wild animals front and foremost have aesthetic value. That their value lies in their unconditional belonging to the nature humanity would like to protect. We should get away from the “killing animals for money” perception. Nature’s laws as such are easily explained.

And this is the most important need of the moment: to explain nature. Not nature manipulated to suit someone’s (financial or emotional) need, but nature as it is. Factual and from out scientific viewpoint only. It has to be pointed out that regularly rhino bulls are killed during fights amongst themselves. The merciless interaction between lion and hyena has to be pointed out. The food chains on which nature rests have to be explained. This is the important campaign that has to be started immediately without connotation to hunting. And then the question has to be asked and answered: Does humanity still want and need nature?

Human off-take – and importantly – if done respectfully and sustainably, will justify itself, once nature is properly understood. Surely we hunters do not kill environments, rather the contrary. The “value of the privilege to hunt” is what explains our case appropriately. To put it in plain, practical terms: the “daily fee” for being able to hunt in natural surroundings is the hugely powerful value (the incentive that adds monetary value to consumptive tourism) that supports our case of contributing towards ecologically sound conservation – not the value of the individual animal to be shot; its value is only indirectly; lies in being part of a bigger, healthy natural concept - a concept which tourist can use in consumptive and in non-consumptive way without doing any harm to it.



Source: Namibia Professional Hunting Association (NAPHA)

I 100% agree with Mr. Denker -- especially the two sections that I have bolded. Much of the African hunting community terms read rather different than how they are used in our community. Mr. Denker used "adding value to animals" and I would add "if it pays it stays" and "hunting is conservation". To use these terms mean that hunters are willing to pay more than the cost of the safari and expect money to go back into conservation. To the non-African hunting community, these are perceived as I have enough money to buy my trophy animal ... and pay a handsome profit to an outfitter. They do not understand that the money flows back into conservation..

I think we could take a book out of a couple of VERY successful U. S. conservation organizations. Ducks Unlimited and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. They talk about habitat and land conservation -- period. Go look at the RMEF website. There are NO pictures of any one hunting, No dead elk .... just lots of pictures of people enjoying the convention and pictures of beautiful mountains. When they share their success stories it as about ACRES not inches of elk! DU also has no hunting photos and state "Ducks Unlimited conserves, restores, and manages wetlands and associated habitats for North America's waterfowl. These habitats also benefit other wildlife and people."

As the African hunting community we need to stress that WE conserve, restore, and manage habitats for ALL of Africa's wildlife. This needs to be followed with beautiful photos of habitat and copious listing of acres/hectares that have been saved from farming, grazing, and urbanization. This is how we change the conversation. It took RMEF and DU decades to get these messages across. If we want to do the same, we need to focus our conversations on conserving LAND and less on the our trophies.

 

[Velo Dog]

I 100% agree with Mr. Denker -- especially the two sections that I have bolded. Much of the African hunting community terms read rather different than how they are used in our community. Mr. Denker used "adding value to animals" and I would add "if it pays it stays" and "hunting is conservation". To use these terms mean that hunters are willing to pay more than the cost of the safari and expect money to go back into conservation. To the non-African hunting community, these are perceived as I have enough money to buy my trophy animal ... and pay a handsome profit to an outfitter. They do not understand that the money flows back into conservation..

I think we could take a book out of a couple of VERY successful U. S. conservation organizations. Ducks Unlimited and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. They talk about habitat and land conservation -- period. Go look at the RMEF website. There are NO pictures of any one hunting, No dead elk .... just lots of pictures of people enjoying the convention and pictures of beautiful mountains. When they share their success stories it as about ACRES not inches of elk! DU also has no hunting photos and state "Ducks Unlimited conserves, restores, and manages wetlands and associated habitats for North America's waterfowl. These habitats also benefit other wildlife and people."

As the African hunting community we need to stress that WE conserve, restore, and manage habitats for ALL of Africa's wildlife. This needs to be followed with beautiful photos of habitat and copious listing of acres/hectares that have been saved from farming, grazing, and urbanization. This is how we change the conversation. It took RMEF and DU decades to get these messages across. If we want to do the same, we need to focus our conversations on conserving LAND and less on the our trophies.

Hi Scott Slough,

I like very much what you have said here.

RMEF and DU definitely are on the right track regarding habitat preservation - and it is the truth, not just fast talk.

They do not post antler scores and such, their concern is in preserving the animals by preserving, managing and sometimes enhancing the habitat - dead "trophies", tape measures and record books do not seem to occupy much (if any) content, within their advertising.

I like the way they roll.

Truth of the matter is that, non-hunters - not necessarily always anti-hunters - quite often if not usually, see all of us as "Tape Measure & Record Book Types" (kill, kill, measure, measure, score, score).

And, although we know that not all of us are - it nonetheless seems to be the message we have unwaveringly displayed in recent decades.

Making everything into a contest, including what should be simply the Devine peace and solitude of the wilderness, combined with the simple joy of hunting - is a colossal mistake.

And now we're up against the wealth of Hollywood, plus the main stream media and most public school systems.

People growing up with weak parents are falling into their whirlpool of lies as if it is free candy.

All of these Boon & Crockett, Roland & Ward, Pope & Young, Weatherby Awards, SCI Recognition, etc., etc., for the most and the largest (or name your contest) is very bad PR for our hunting community.

I dislike it in general, primarily for that reason but also specifically because when African buffalo and sable to name but two, are at their longest of horn/score their highest when they are also unfortunately in their best / peak breeding years.

Taking them during their breeding prime, just so we can one-up our buddies with a tape measure is horrible PR, in the eyes of those people who do not hunt (hell, I don't even like it and hunting/fishing is my religion).

Of course, there are those who are haters just for the sake of hating and those who believe in the absurd just because it is absurd and none of those can be reasoned with but, there might be hope with the uninformed masses, if we get our PR ducks in a row.

I do hope we can turn this mess around,
Velo Dog.

 

[Scott Slough]

...

RMEF and DU definitely are on the right track regarding habitat preservation - and it is the truth, not just fast talk.

...

I like the way they roll.

...

I do hope we can turn this mess around,
Velo Dog

When you roll straight (tell the truth) it is not hard to see.

 

[Pheroze]

I was reading on AH a couple of old texts from Roland &Ward, I think. From what I read wonder if the original intent was to catalogue where the large animals where, not necessarily to keep a score sheet. In that sense it is more of a tool to monitor the health of a herd rather than a reason to take an animal. Maybe emphasizing its use for conservation is better PR than just celebrating it as a "trophy", for lack of a better word.
For example, Mr.Smith took a jackolope that measured 6.5". As this is the largest confirmed example in the wild, Jackolope Unlimited recommends the herd in Arizona be.....etc etc.

I dunno, just brainstorming on how to better use what we are criticized for. Especially as cutbacks to the monitoring of our natural resources makes it harder to keep track of what is really out there.

 

[enysse]

Truth of the matter is that, non-hunters - not necessarily always anti-hunters - quite often if not usually, see all of us as "Tape Measure & Record Book Types" (kill, kill, measure, measure, score, score).

This really does bother the avg joe hunter and the non-hunter too. Most people are ok with population control and eating animals for meat. But the truth of the matter is they hate seeing "trophy" pictures. Some of it jealousy on the meat hunter and non-hunters think we kill animals only for horns.

 

[Velo Dog]

This really does bother the avg joe hunter and the non-hunter too. Most people are ok with population control and eating animals for meat. But the truth of the matter is they hate seeing "trophy" pictures. Some of it jealousy on the meat hunter and non-hunters think we kill animals only for horns.

Hi Enysse,

I agree with you that many non-hunters do not like to see dead animals.

It's possible that it is at least partly due to plenty of them being born and raised in some easy-life city, generation after generation.
Also, since about the late 1950's, many have wasted a lot of years in front of the television (Hollywood's Propaganda Box).
Intellectually they probably know that meat is from animals, which have been slaughtered but emotionally, these people are evidently in total denial, preferring instead it seems, to believe that meat originates somehow within the nearest grocery store.
I also agree with you that some non hunters (sadly not all non hunters) are able to reason out that animal populations sometimes need thinning and likewise that for meat to end up on someone's dinner plate, first some animal must die.
Whichever the case, the general non-hunting public typically does not want to see photos of dead animals.

Furthermore, it is my impression that they get even more upset, when they hear or read about people whom they perceive - whether accurately or not - have shot some critter, for no other reason than simply to get their name in some "Record Book" or at least to hope for a "Gold Medal", etc.
I'm not on the anti-hunter's team but, I can definitely understand how people who have lived a sheltered city life might see "Trophy Hunting" as offensive.
And, as delusional as they are, we all need to remember that they do vote, by the millions.

While I'm on this rant, I cannot speak for all Meat Hunters however, jealousy of the Trophy Hunter is not an accurate or fair depiction of why I do not bother or fuss about tape measures, a fraction of an inch here or a few centimeters there and all the things that fit in with such "Keeping Score" type ideas.
Fact is, I do not fully understand why the tape measure thing is so ripping important to those that subscribe to it.

It's pretty difficult to be jealous of something that I don't fully understand.
The best example I can think of (and it is admittedly not a very good one) but it is about all I can come up with is regarding pickup trucks I guess.
As today's over priced motor vehicles go, I prefer pickup trucks, especially 4 wheel drive ones.
However, just the regular ones are to my liking.

I do not understand why it is so important to some folks to have chrome running boards, loud pipes, orange and purple flames painted on the doors, a fake blower scoop on the hood, naked lady mud flaps, boom-boom speakers, huge wheels and tires, greatly elevated suspension to match, and generally dripping with pimped-up shiny gadgets and flashy accessories.
Therefore, it is pretty difficult for me to be jealous of people who drive such pickup trucks.

Keeping within that vain, I'm happiest when just simply hunting, no pressure to "one-up" anyone else or any of that.
Now, all that being said, I am convinced that we all need to stick together, in the face of the Anti-Hunters (spoiled rotten control freaks).

Therefore, I apologize in advance if I have stepped on any toes here, such was definitely not my intent.
I just believe that we as hunters are capable of better world wide PR than we have been lately.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[lcq]

True. And they want our vote and our money. If I thought they actually cared about what they purport to believe in, as opposed to staying in power, then I'd be worried!!!!

Don't take me wrong. I don't think that all is well in our world, but I don't think we are nearing the end either. All the more reason to have a sense of urgency now actually, before the problem gets even bigger.

"True. And they want our vote and our money. If I thought they actually cared about what they purport to believe in, as opposed to staying in power, then I'd be worried!!!!"

Bingo Royal you hit the ten ring