SOUTH AFRICA: Kuche Safaris

[BRICKBURN]

Point in time measurements.
I have been contacted by others that have confirmed the OP's concerns. I have invited these other "unhappy" attendees to share their experiences and they are waiting until their trophies are in hand before sharing their tales. Fair enough.

The real point of the exercise is to ensure you ask the right questions BEFORE you ever buy, bid or accept a hunt. Make sure it is what you want.
If large volume providers suit your fancy then you'll be just fine. If not, find someone who suits your needs better.

I have been hunting with a large group of my own friends and I have hunted alone with an entire property/camp/concession to myself. Both are enjoyable if you made that decision beforehand. Ask the questions and know what you are getting in to.

Good luck with your research.

 

[Daisy]

Over time, I definitely will try some more remote hunting experiences. For my first time in Africa, the large camp experience was perfect for me.

I would say the majority of hunters were on their first (and probably last) Africa hunting trip. My guess is it’s a bucket list thing that gets checked for most. That’s great and Kuche made it memorable for my friends and me.

There were two hunters their that had been numerous times. They enjoyed sitting around telling us stories (so did I), yet their hunts were tailored for different things in more remote locations. One harvested a Cape Buffalo and a Hippo on this trip. Being able to go take dangerous game, then come back to camp and share stories around dinner and a fire does have appeal.

I’ve read most of the old Africa hunting books. It was a different time. Yet many had 4-5 western people on their trip, and a boat load of porters, trackers, guides, and cooks. Hell they might have had more people in their camp at once than Kuche. The loan American by himself in the bush does not seem to be reality.

 

[Firebird]

This is why it is imperative to do a full report on your hunting trip at the end of it-even if it was NOT a Good experience! Then when someone wants to research an outfit they will find multiple detailed accounts to sort through and see if a ph is a good fit for them or not.
I will never take an opinion from someone who has only hunted with one outfit!

 

[Denvir Tire]

I've been following this thread with interest after my few comments at the beginning. It's heartening so see so many people defend Kuche Safari and I'm genuinely happy that so many hunters had such a good hunt with happy memories.
Regarding the many comments refuting my first hand and recent observations, we'll agree to disagree. While food quality and taste can be subjective, I know mediocre fare when I see it. In addition, the location of the skinning shed is simple geography, sit outside the breakfast room at the tables provided and perhaps then my comments will be vindicated.
The PH's were all very professional and personable and I believe the majority are free-lance. The sheer number of clients however prevent the personal interaction and bonding I've experienced at other African venues.
It's also true that wine is readily available at the bar, however it was made clear that no spirits are provided.

I also met Koos and have him in my WhatsApp contacts. He's a straight shooter and a very good businessman. The business model he follows however is not for me.
I'll close and end my comments with a simple observation.
I traveled to Kuche with three guys, two who'd never been to Africa and one on his second trip. The newbies had a fantastic time at Kuche and were already planning another visit next year. When we left Limpopo after a week in camp we then moved on to another safari with an outfitter that I and second trip guy had been to before.
The four of us then spent a week in the Free State and the Northern Cape for PG. It didn't take long before all plans of returning to Kuche dissipated.

 

[R.M.C.]

Point in time measurements.
I have been contacted by others that have confirmed the OP's concerns. I have invited these other "unhappy" attendees to share their experiences and they are waiting until their trophies are in hand before sharing their tales. Fair enough.

The real point of the exercise is to ensure you ask the right questions BEFORE you ever buy, bid or accept a hunt. Make sure it is what you want.
If large volume providers suit your fancy then you'll be just fine. If not, find someone who suits your needs better.

I have been hunting with a large group of my own friends and I have hunted alone with an entire property/camp/concession to myself. Both are enjoyable if you are made that decision beforehand. Ask the questions and know what you are getting in to.

Good luck with your research.

Thank you brickburn!!

 

[Deepfork]

This.

That has to be put and take, just due to volume. Not my cup of tea, but everyone is different.

Nope...has to be because...why? No put and take on the properties Kuche hunts. Been there, talked to game ranch owners and the owner/operators of Kuche safaris. Cross referenced what I was told with what I saw FIRST HAND. YOU are WRONG!

 

[Deepfork]

Over time, I definitely will try some more remote hunting experiences. For my first time in Africa, the large camp experience was perfect for me.

I would say the majority of hunters were on their first (and probably last) Africa hunting trip. My guess is it’s a bucket list thing that gets checked for most. That’s great and Kuche made it memorable for my friends and me.

There were two hunters their that had been numerous times. They enjoyed sitting around telling us stories (so did I), yet their hunts were tailored for different things in more remote locations. One harvested a Cape Buffalo and a Hippo on this trip. Being able to go take dangerous game, then come back to camp and share stories around dinner and a fire does have appeal.

I’ve read most of the old Africa hunting books. It was a different time. Yet many had 4-5 western people on their trip, and a boat load of porters, trackers, guides, and cooks. Hell they might have had more people in their camp at once than Kuche. The loan American by himself in the bush does not seem to be reality.

Your last paragraph here is very insightful.

 

[Deepfork]

I see something very different. I see first time African hunters defending what has been their best hunting experience so far and soon to be first time African hunters hoping for their best hunting experience. The more times you hunt South Africa the more you may begin to question what you’ve been told about the sustainability and management practices you’ve discussed with these landowners especially on the industrial scale described.

You see? What do you see? I sat in the Kuche camp in Limpopo with a family group of three led by a gentleman that has hunted Africa over a dozen times. Over half of those trips to SA with Kuche. He continues to return, and bring his loved ones.

You criticize what you don't understand, and don't have DIRECT knowledge of. That is small minded. Your opinion means zero to me. I talked to these people face to face. I saw what I saw, heard I heard. There are crooks in the hunting industry all over Africa, that is not debatable. This thread is about Kuche Safaris. They are upfront about what they offer. They are a good Christian family, their values are reflected in how they conduct business and very apparent in the day to day operations at the base camp and family farm in Limpopo.

Kuche is not hunting on any "put and take" properties.

So your condescending "may begin to question" crap is just that.

 

[Deepfork]

Kuche will provide any type of African hunting experience you desire, different regions of South Africa and beyond. We spent a couple of days in Free State on a beautiful reserve. Beautiful scenery, lodging and dining on par with what you would expect in major American and European cities.

The landscape was beautiful....Wide open spaces and rocky outpost. Very iconic views, just what you would hope for whether you had been to Africa before or not.

My PH and I spent hours chasing a band of mountain Zebras while we were there. I got on the sticks 3 times only to have them bolt at the last second each time. Mountain Zebra is at the top of my wish list for our next Africa hunt.

I did take two world class trophies in Free State. A beautiful Black Wildebeest, a animal few hunters who do not visit South Africa have the opportunity to take. As I said, beautiful animal, and the very first shot I fired in South Africa (other than on the zero range). My PH and I reached the top of a grassy hill and could see for miles below. There were Black Wildebeest, Springbok and a few Red Hartebeest in sight. After glassing for maybe 30 seconds my PH told me, "there is a beautiful Black Wildebeest Bull you should consider." I said "I'm in." He guided me to the correct animal, had me hold for maybe 30 seconds while a group of springbok behind the Wildebeest got out of the way. The next thing my PH said was "take him sir, 303 yards." I pulled the trigger, the Black Wildebeest dropped where he stood and I was hooked!

My Water buck was a totally different type of interaction. My PH and I were walking a rocky hillside still after the Mountain Zebra. A water buck bull crossed a clearing in front of us and disappeared. My PH looked at me and said "Sir that was a beautiful waterbuck, the one many clients are hoping for. You should take him if you can". We took a few more steps, the water buck jumped into a clearing in front of us and I shot. I took 7 animals with the rifle and 2 with my bow on this hunt. The Waterbuck was the shortest rifle shot I had by far. Around 60 yards. He was also the only animal I shot that I did not see go down so I was a instant basket case. I pleaded my case to the PH....I know I made a good shot, I don't know why he is not here. By then our tracker had joined us. He made a small circle, looked around and said "he is right there, pointing over the crest of the hill. We all headed that direction and...there he was.... Maybe 50 yards from where he was standing when i made the shot.

This was my experience with Kuche on the two days we spent in Free State. Great experience, beautiful landscapes. Five star accommodations and dining. But, I felt more at home and enjoyed myself more at the "crowded" base camp in Limpopo!

 

[HookMeUpII]

Nope...has to be because...why? No put and take on the properties Kuche hunts. Been there, talked to game ranch owners and the owner/operators of Kuche safaris. Cross referenced what I was told with what I saw FIRST HAND. YOU are WRONG!

I have to concur with this as well. We met a few ranch owners, all nice, as well. None of them, to my knowledge, were put and take. One of them was 30,000 acres. Not even sure how it works on something like that. Where I shot my kudu was without a doubt, not put and take. We tried stalking to no end. It was almost impossible to find them. Thick brush all over. Finally, we got lucky at a water hole sit during lunch.

 

[JD Noblin]

I am JD Noblin of JD Outfitters. I have read the anonymous complaint and allegations devoid of any factual support against Kuche Safari and its owner, Koos De Meyer, submitted by a female client whose screen name on the AH forum is “Schatzi” (referred to hereafter as “Anonymous Complainer”). Below is a short review of my personal experiences with Koos and Kuche Safaris along with disclosures regaining my connections with Kuche Safaris.

Also below is information provided to me by Koos in the form of a text string that appears to be between him and Anonymous Complainer while she was at the Amanzi Private Game Reserve that Kuche has hunted for several years. The text string details the efforts made by Koos to address this woman’s complaints but she refused every single effort to resolve her alleged complaints. The text string provided below shows that Anonymous Complainer told Koos:

(1) she would not move from the allegedly dirty and food-less lodge, and ​

(2) she did not want Koos to drive down to where she was so that he could address her issues.​

​

Once you review the below information you can draw your own conclusions about the situation and parties involved.

DISCLOSURES:
Koos is a personal friend of mine. In addition, I have a business relationship with Kuche Safaris.

A BRIEF SUMMARY OF MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH KUCHE:
I have known Koos and Kuche Safaris since 2015. I was referred to Kuche by a good friend and gunsmith after we had discussed my not-so-good experiences with different PHs in Tanzania and South Africa. After personally meeting with Koos and performing due diligence regarding his operation, I have been on at least five safaris with Kuche (including Zimbabwe and obviously South Africa). I also have additional trips already planned.

The reason why I trust Koos and continue to book with him quite simple — I have learned that when something is within his control and he says it will happen, it does, and if he says it will not happen, it does not. He has always treated me with utmost respect and fairness, often going far out of his way to make me and those with me happy, even if it costs him financially sometimes. When traveling anywhere in Africa and being the literal minority foreigner, it is greatly comforting to know that Koos and Kuche Safaris are behind me.

I have also twice stayed at and hunted the same game reserve as Anonymous Complainer—Amanzi Private Game Reserve. In short, my two experiences at Amanzi were in all ways and respects the exact opposite of this woman’s unsupported claims.

INFORMATION AND DETAILS THAT I CONCLUDE TO BE FROM ANONYMOUS COMPLAINER:
Anonymous Complainer states that she was at Kuche “last month” which would be May, 2023. Koos provided to me the attached pictures of a text string and a nearly identical complaint posted about Amanzi from the same female client in the text string. The date of the text string is May 15, 2023 and the Amanzi complaint is May 18, 2023 as shown in the pictures below.

In my judgment, Anonymous Complainer and the female in the attached screen shots are one and the same person because both complaints:

1. were authored by a female client of Kuche Safaris;
2. occurred during the same relevant, narrow time period, May 2023,
3. are virtually identical in content, and,
4. the term “Schatzi” is German for “darling”….Koos informed me that the female client stated she was German and the female in the attached email string states that she speaks German.

Since Anonymous Complainer has not revealed her identity, I have redacted the name of the female client in the attached pictures. You are free to draw your own conclusion regarding whether the two females are one and the same person. To me, it is far beyond a reasonable doubt that the two females are the same person.

KEY POINTS FROM THE ATTACHED INFORMATION:

1. Anonymous Complainer texted Koos on May 15, 2023, about her issues. Koos informed her that he spoke with management and that she would be moved out of the hunting lodge to the main lodge — she refused and stated “I'm not going to move it's to late”
2. In the text string, Koos offered to drive to her to handle any issues (the distance from Kuche Safaris in Limpopo to the Amanzi Game Reserve in the Free State is well over 400 miles) and told her that “I am in my car already”— again she refused and stated “We don’t need you here.”
3. Also in the text string, she stated “This information is for you only I will not discuss this information again with anyone one else this is only for you”. Yet three days later, on May 18, 2023, she posted her unsupported complaints on a webpage for Amanzi (see picture below) and then again on the AH forum on June 26, 2023.

MY CONCLUSION DRAWN FROM THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED ABOVE:
Anonymous Complainer provided only broad-brush allegations with no factual support of any kind. Despite repeated requests by form members to provide support for her allegations, its been several days since her first-ever posting on the AH forum and no support has been forthcoming. Her utter failure to provide evidentiary support, combined with the undeniable fact that she refused all efforts to address her alleged complaints, leads me to conclude that Anonymous Complainer lacks credibility and that her unsupported allegations should be rejected.

.

 

[Daisy]

I am JD Noblin of JD Outfitters. I have read the anonymous complaint and allegations devoid of any factual support against Kuche Safari and its owner, Koos De Meyer, submitted by a female client whose screen name on the AH forum is “Schatzi” (referred to hereafter as “Anonymous Complainer”). Below is a short review of my personal experiences with Koos and Kuche Safaris along with disclosures regaining my connections with Kuche Safaris.

Also below is information provided to me by Koos in the form of a text string that appears to be between him and Anonymous Complainer while she was at the Amanzi Private Game Reserve that Kuche has hunted for several years. The text string details the efforts made by Koos to address this woman’s complaints but she refused every single effort to resolve her alleged complaints. The text string provided below shows that Anonymous Complainer told Koos:

(1) she would not move from the allegedly dirty and food-less lodge, and ​

(2) she did not want Koos to drive down to where she was so that he could address her issues.​

​

Once you review the below information you can draw your own conclusions about the situation and parties involved.

DISCLOSURES:
Koos is a personal friend of mine. In addition, I have a business relationship with Kuche Safaris.

A BRIEF SUMMARY OF MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH KUCHE:
I have known Koos and Kuche Safaris since 2015. I was referred to Kuche by a good friend and gunsmith after we had discussed my not-so-good experiences with different PHs in Tanzania and South Africa. After personally meeting with Koos and performing due diligence regarding his operation, I have been on at least five safaris with Kuche (including Zimbabwe and obviously South Africa). I also have additional trips already planned.

The reason why I trust Koos and continue to book with him quite simple — I have learned that when something is within his control and he says it will happen, it does, and if he says it will not happen, it does not. He has always treated me with utmost respect and fairness, often going far out of his way to make me and those with me happy, even if it costs him financially sometimes. When traveling anywhere in Africa and being the literal minority foreigner, it is greatly comforting to know that Koos and Kuche Safaris are behind me.

I have also twice stayed at and hunted the same game reserve as Anonymous Complainer—Amanzi Private Game Reserve. In short, my two experiences at Amanzi were in all ways and respects the exact opposite of this woman’s unsupported claims.

INFORMATION AND DETAILS THAT I CONCLUDE TO BE FROM ANONYMOUS COMPLAINER:
Anonymous Complainer states that she was at Kuche “last month” which would be May, 2023. Koos provided to me the attached pictures of a text string and a nearly identical complaint posted about Amanzi from the same female client in the text string. The date of the text string is May 15, 2023 and the Amanzi complaint is May 18, 2023 as shown in the pictures below.

In my judgment, Anonymous Complainer and the female in the attached screen shots are one and the same person because both complaints:

1. were authored by a female client of Kuche Safaris;
2. occurred during the same relevant, narrow time period, May 2023,
3. are virtually identical in content, and,
4. the term “Schatzi” is German for “darling”….Koos informed me that the female client stated she was German and the female in the attached email string states that she speaks German.

Since Anonymous Complainer has not revealed her identity, I have redacted the name of the female client in the attached pictures. You are free to draw your own conclusion regarding whether the two females are one and the same person. To me, it is far beyond a reasonable doubt that the two females are the same person.

KEY POINTS FROM THE ATTACHED INFORMATION:

1. Anonymous Complainer texted Koos on May 15, 2023, about her issues. Koos informed her that he spoke with management and that she would be moved out of the hunting lodge to the main lodge — she refused and stated “I'm not going to move it's to late”
2. In the text string, Koos offered to drive to her to handle any issues (the distance from Kuche Safaris in Limpopo to the Amanzi Game Reserve in the Free State is well over 400 miles) and told her that “I am in my car already”— again she refused and stated “We don’t need you here.”
3. Also in the text string, she stated “This information is for you only I will not discuss this information again with anyone one else this is only for you”. Yet three days later, on May 18, 2023, she posted her unsupported complaints on a webpage for Amanzi (see picture below) and then again on the AH forum on June 26, 2023.

MY CONCLUSION DRAWN FROM THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED ABOVE:
Anonymous Complainer provided only broad-brush allegations with no factual support of any kind. Despite repeated requests by form members to provide support for her allegations, its been several days since her first-ever posting on the AH forum and no support has been forthcoming. Her utter failure to provide evidentiary support, combined with the undeniable fact that she refused all efforts to address her alleged complaints, leads me to conclude that Anonymous Complainer lacks credibility and that her unsupported allegations should be rejected.

View attachment 542674View attachment 542675View attachment 542676View attachment 542677View attachment 542678.

I was at Kuche as same time as JD. He is one of the stud seasoned hunters there at same time as me. The real deal.

 

[Hunt anything]

I have never hunted Kuche but my wife’s cousin and his son did in 2017 I think, they enjoyed their time there and the 2 complaint they had was the smell at the skinning shed and several delays of their trophy shipment. They still talk favorably about them and their safari and they didn’t get all of their animals on their trophy list. Which to me says a lot.

 

[Deepfork]

I have to concur with this as well. We met a few ranch owners, all nice, as well. None of them, to my knowledge, were put and take. One of them was 30,000 acres. Not even sure how it works on something like that. Where I shot my kudu was without a doubt, not put and take. We tried stalking to no end. It was almost impossible to find them. Thick brush all over. Finally, we got lucky at a water hole sit during lunch.

I know which property you are talking about. My son and I spent a day there with Cobus. I did get a nice Gemsbok there. My son was after a Kudu. We caught glimpses of some really nice ones but he could not get a shot.

 

[Tyler Barron]

View attachment 542186
Kuche Safari mess hall

This photo and statement is misleading. 1/3 of those tables were always filled with Koos family and the PHs he has working for them, bc they were incredibly gracious hosts and wanted to build a relationship with us.

We were there with 2 other groups of 2 for a total of 6 hunters. He had a ton of concessions and I never hunted the same ranch twice.

 

[Deepfork]

This.

That has to be put and take, just due to volume. Not my cup of tea, but everyone is different.

They do not ever have 40 hunters in camp. Twenty something, Yes. Still a large number. But I'll say again, once we left camp I did not once see another hunter outside my group. Not from Kuches camp or any other outfitter for that matter.

Again, you are wrong about the put and take when it comes to the properties they manage or hunt. They do surveys by the means we would expect. If the poulation of a specific species gets too low on a specific property, or is not sustaining itself that property is closed for that species, usually for two years.

One of guys in my group took a huge Kudu on the Kuche lodge/farm property. Not a fenced property by the way. There are many miles of game ranches in every direction from Kuches base camp. If you see the size and number of properties they hunt you might be able to accept it's possible it is self-sustaining.

 

[375Fox]

They do not ever have 40 hunters in camp. Twenty something, Yes. Still a large number. But I'll say again, once we left camp I did not once see another hunter outside my group. Not from Kuches camp or any other outfitter for that matter.

Again, you are wrong about the put and take when it comes to the properties they manage or hunt. They do surveys by the means we would expect. If the poulation of a specific species gets too low on a specific property, or is not sustaining itself that property is closed for that species, usually for two years.

One of guys in my group took a huge Kudu on the Kuche lodge/farm property. Not a fenced property by the way. There are many miles of game ranches in every direction from Kuches base camp. If you see the size and number of properties they hunt you might be able to accept it's possible it is self-sustaining.

40 hunters in camp was in a post made another member on this thread about his hunt at Kuche Safaris

 

[375Fox]

You see? What do you see? I sat in the Kuche camp in Limpopo with a family group of three led by a gentleman that has hunted Africa over a dozen times. Over half of those trips to SA with Kuche. He continues to return, and bring his loved ones.

You criticize what you don't understand, and don't have DIRECT knowledge of. That is small minded. Your opinion means zero to me. I talked to these people face to face. I saw what I saw, heard I heard. There are crooks in the hunting industry all over Africa, that is not debatable. This thread is about Kuche Safaris. They are upfront about what they offer. They are a good Christian family, their values are reflected in how they conduct business and very apparent in the day to day operations at the base camp and family farm in Limpopo.

Kuche is not hunting on any "put and take" properties.

So your condescending "may begin to question" crap is just that.

I don’t think you are doing any favors for kuche with your posts. It may be condescending but I do mean it when I say after several safaris you will begin to question what you’ve been told in South Africa about self sustaining animals and put and take. Maybe it doesn’t bother you, that’s up to you. They have altered the definition to allow regular supplementation and few seem to take issue with it. It has just become a normal business practice. There are no outfitters in South Africa that will admit to put and take. I will not hunt with Kuche safari. Nothing about their hunting or business model appeals to me, but it’s not unlike many other outfitters in South Africa employing the ranch hopping hunting model. They’ve just industrialized it. I don’t need hunt with them to see what it is. I’m not arguing that the properties they hunt can’t be self sustaining or that 80% of their hunting isn’t, but 20-40 hunters in camp says something different. Game is readily available for purchase in South Africa and long drive times are not appealing to hunters. It creates the necessity for this business model to work. The amount of property they hunt would also make me question every PHs hunting experience with each property. I’m glad you had an enjoyable hunt, but all first time African hunters usually think their hunt was the best. You will learn and see more with each hunt you do, especially if you hunt with multiple outfitters.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I know which property you are talking about. My son and I spent a day there with Cobus. I did get a nice Gemsbok there. My son was after a Kudu. We caught glimpses of some really nice ones but he could not get a shot.

That sounds like the same property. It was hands down one of the most interesting places I hunted there. Just goes to show, don't judge a book by its cover.

 

[Denvir Tire]

I don’t think you are doing any favors for kuche with your posts. It may be condescending but I do mean it when I say after several safaris you will begin to question what you’ve been told in South Africa about self sustaining animals and put and take. Maybe it doesn’t bother you, that’s up to you. They have altered the definition to allow regular supplementation and few seem to take issue with it. It has just become a normal business practice. There are no outfitters in South Africa that will admit to put and take. I will not hunt with Kuche safari. Nothing about their hunting or business model appeals to me, but it’s not unlike many other outfitters in South Africa employing the ranch hopping hunting model. They’ve just industrialized it. I don’t need hunt with them to see what it is. I’m not arguing that the properties they hunt can’t be self sustaining or that 80% of their hunting isn’t, but 20-40 hunters in camp says something different. Game is readily available for purchase in South Africa and long drive times are not appealing to hunters. It creates the necessity for this business model to work. The amount of property they hunt would also make me question every PHs hunting experience with each property. I’m glad you had an enjoyable hunt, but all first time African hunters usually think their hunt was the best. You will learn and see more with each hunt you do, especially if you hunt with multiple outfitters.

The frequency and and almost pathological nature of some of the posters regarding this topic is getting somewhat suspicious......
Indeed it's even more curious considering the bulk is coming from one poster who, apparently, has only visited one outfitter two times.

Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in!