The next best calibre?

[Rosch]

I took a big zebra stallion cleanly with a .30-06. That was 39 years ago, but I seriously doubt that they have gotten any tougher since then. My PH back then (and last month) assures me that giraffe are taken all the time with .270's and up. Eland are regularly taken with .308's. Having seen me shoot many times, he was certain that an eland would have been no problem. Since he's been doing this for over 40 years, I'm taking his word for it. Of course, if you use a .375 and shoot an oryx in the guts or leg he probably won't die quickly, but that isn't a caliber problem. By the way, a moose is every bit as large as an eland. I am neither naive or inexperienced, and I do believe in using enough gun. I'll stand by.my words.

In Your answer I can see, that You don‘t even catch, what I‘m talking about.
You can take an Eland or Giraffe even with a 22lfb. Hit the right spot and You are done. So why do You use a 30-06 then?
By the way too: A moose falls dead if You talk loud at it. To compare it to african game in any way is a big mistake, but shows also that You haven‘t hunted much in the south.

I tell You my experience: Those who haven‘t got the cochonas to shot 375‘s or bigger out in the bush, which are developed for exactly that purpose, take their 270 and 30-06‘s with to hunt Africa with the „cheapest“ input. The PH cleans the mess anyway, so what to worry about?

In my world I do have the responsibility to make sure, that if I shoot at any game, that this animal has not to suffer any unnessesary pain. Me and my companians use for this reason guns, which will do for sure and even more. Gambling by shooting at zebras with a 30-06 is not our way. Did You ever slaughter that game? Did You ever see how many big bones and packs of muscles are on a stallion‘s chest? What all can go wrong by hitting it with a gun, which is thought to hunt middle sized game at home in US or Europe with?
Don’t take the PH in. The PH doesn‘t worry. You pay the trophy, even if You mess up and the game is gone, eaten by maggots and shakals while You sipping cocktails in a luxury hunting lodge. My question is, if this is Your way celebrating hunting in the best wilderness and hunting paradise god has created on this planet ?
I don’t know if all this concernes You? It’s not a talk about cartridges and guns here anymore, we talk about common sense, basic human compassion and respect for the beautyful creature out there!

Sorry to the thread owner to spoil his line of thread.

 

[Dr Ray]

@Dr Ray
Just because I like the 225gn doesn't mean I like the 338WM.

I see

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Hi All,

Currently in my safe I have .222, .243, .270 and 30-30.

Here in Australia I do all my deer hunting with the .270 and finding it does the job but….

Not including big bore for dangerous game, what would be the next best calibre to get to “fill the gap” if I say wanted to shoot heavier bullets and do a PG hunt?

Cheers,
Shifty

In a later post you said you are adding a large bore.
So, If you are “adding“ a .375, then you are covered…

Unless you just like buying rifles? I swear I don’t, but that seems to be an inconsistent statement!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I just didn’t include big bore because I have my eye on a .375 or .458 Lott but that’s a different story

Oops, misquote: You have your eye on a .375! Probably a good idea…

 

[CBH Australia]

In a later post you said you are adding a large bore.
So, If you are “adding“ a .375, then you are covered…

Unless you just like buying rifles? I swear I don’t, but that seems to be an inconsistent statement!

I think we "like buying rifles" just sometimes we try rationalise the need for each rifle.

 

[fourfive8]

I d

I defiantly agree eland are in a different class when it comes to plains game. I used my Heym Martini in 416 Rigby to shoot mine and I didn’t feel it was overkill ! I also used that same rifle to take Gemsbok, Black Wildebeest Cow, Warthogs and a Lioness with the same rifle on that trip with no problems. The 416 Rigby is a versatile caliber in my opinion.

Yep! I have used both a 375 HH and 416 Rem Mag exclusively on plains game hunts and they work extremely well. They actually do less meat damage to small to average sized plains game than other smaller, high velocity cartridges given the generally lower velocities and tougher bullets. Over the years it's pretty much settled into my brain that if I can shoot a bigger gun accurately, it is usually the better choice.

Exactly my thoughts- I too did not feel over-gunned shooting this eland with a 416 Rem Mag.

 

[CBH Australia]

Did @fourfive8 just say.threeseven5 and four16?

I do agree that your comment on shooting a bigger gun accurately is usually a better choice . If you can, it's a great idea.

if not shooting a .375 accurately if "it" can handle "it" also makes sense.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think we "like buying rifles" just sometimes we try rationalise the need for each rifle.

No rationality needed here on AH! Just look at the audience? LOL

 

[CBH Australia]

No rationality needed here on AH! Just look at the audience? LOL

Are you implying that certain members are irrational?

No names mentioned and not meaning to derail the thread I think the .300wm fits the op requirements.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

In Your answer I can see, that You don‘t even catch, what I‘m talking about.
You can take an Eland or Giraffe even with a 22lfb. Hit the right spot and You are done. So why do You use a 30-06 then?
By the way too: A moose falls dead if You talk loud at it. To compare it to african game in any way is a big mistake, but shows also that You haven‘t hunted much in the south.

I tell You my experience: Those who haven‘t got the cochonas to shot 375‘s or bigger out in the bush, which are developed for exactly that purpose, take their 270 and 30-06‘s with to hunt Africa with the „cheapest“ input. The PH cleans the mess anyway, so what to worry about?

In my world I do have the responsibility to make sure, that if I shoot at any game, that this animal has not to suffer any unnessesary pain. Me and my companians use for this reason guns, which will do for sure and even more. Gambling by shooting at zebras with a 30-06 is not our way. Did You ever slaughter that game? Did You ever see how many big bones and packs of muscles are on a stallion‘s chest? What all can go wrong by hitting it with a gun, which is thought to hunt middle sized game at home in US or Europe with?
Don’t take the PH in. The PH doesn‘t worry. You pay the trophy, even if You mess up and the game is gone, eaten by maggots and shakals while You sipping cocktails in a luxury hunting lodge. My question is, if this is Your way celebrating hunting in the best wilderness and hunting paradise god has created on this planet ?
I don’t know if all this concernes You? It’s not a talk about cartridges and guns here anymore, we talk about common sense, basic human compassion and respect for the beautyful creature out there!

Sorry to the thread owner to spoil his line of thread.

In Your answer I can see, that You don‘t even catch, what I‘m talking about.
You can take an Eland or Giraffe even with a 22lfb. Hit the right spot and You are done. So why do You use a 30-06 then?
By the way too: A moose falls dead if You talk loud at it. To compare it to african game in any way is a big mistake, but shows also that You haven‘t hunted much in the south.

I tell You my experience: Those who haven‘t got the cochonas to shot 375‘s or bigger out in the bush, which are developed for exactly that purpose, take their 270 and 30-06‘s with to hunt Africa with the „cheapest“ input. The PH cleans the mess anyway, so what to worry about?

In my world I do have the responsibility to make sure, that if I shoot at any game, that this animal has not to suffer any unnessesary pain. Me and my companians use for this reason guns, which will do for sure and even more. Gambling by shooting at zebras with a 30-06 is not our way. Did You ever slaughter that game? Did You ever see how many big bones and packs of muscles are on a stallion‘s chest? What all can go wrong by hitting it with a gun, which is thought to hunt middle sized game at home in US or Europe with?
Don’t take the PH in. The PH doesn‘t worry. You pay the trophy, even if You mess up and the game is gone, eaten by maggots and shakals while You sipping cocktails in a luxury hunting lodge. My question is, if this is Your way celebrating hunting in the best wilderness and hunting paradise god has created on this planet ?
I don’t know if all this concernes You? It’s not a talk about cartridges and guns here anymore, we talk about common sense, basic human compassion and respect for the beautyful creature out there!

Sorry to the thread owner to spoil his line of thread.

So you and your mates need a .50 BMG to hunt steenbuck. Good for you. In your ignorance of actual hunting I guess that's good. FYI. I have never needed a PH to clean up a mess for me nor retreated to a lodge, nor have I ever left an animal to suffer and be lost on either continant. So you've killed be lot of moose to make you an expert on them?
Where, prey tell, did you ever get your foolish ideas? It clearly doesn't come from experience.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Are you implying that certain members are irrational?

No names mentioned and not meaning to derail the thread I think the .300wm fits the op requirements.

Irrational exuberance! In times of weakness, I find myself too falling into that deep, dark abyss of NEEDING another firearm for no rational reason. Unlike many here though, I have a more limited firearm buying budget, so I can usually pull myself out of the abyss sooner than later. LOL

 

[Rosch]

………Over the years it's pretty much settled into my brain that if I can shoot a bigger gun accurately, it is usually the better choice.

Exactly my thoughts- I too did not feel over-gunned shooting this eland with a 416 Rem Mag.
View attachment 488487

@Doug Hamilton
Look at this whopper of animal and You wanna hunt it with a tiny 30-06 ? You can’t be serious !! You should overthink Your whole attitude about what You say and what You do ! Never mind the wrong smell You spray out here for guys dreaming about this sort of adventure, still busy building up the plan to hunt one day in africa, searching here for reliable advise and governence.
@fourfive8
thanks for Your picture and comment. Pictures do say often more than a 1000 words. I’m happy to see that You, obviously blessed with real experience, share my thoughts.

 

[fourfive8]

Did @fourfive8 just say.threeseven5 and four16?

I do agree that your comment on shooting a bigger gun accurately is usually a better choice . If you can, it's a great idea.

if not shooting a .375 accurately if "it" can handle "it" also makes sense.

I have done that on a couple of different hunts where the mixed bag potential included both eland and buffalo. I prefer taking only one gun- less to worry about. One time I used only a 375 HH the other a 416 Rem. Too much overlap to consider taking both the 375 and 416 on one trip My favorite plains game caliber is a 338-06 if the only game to be hunted was up to wildebeest/kudu sized plains game.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Are you implying that certain members are irrational?

No names mentioned and not meaning to derail the thread I think the .300wm fits the op requirements.

I’m irrational like the square root of 3!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’m irrational like the square root of 3!

@BourbonTrail
I've never been rational, just reasonable that's why I have a Whelen. There's no rationale behind it but I needed it for the reason I was going to Namibia and wanted one.
Bob

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doug Hamilton
Look at this whopper of animal and You wanna hunt it with a tiny 30-06 ? You can’t be serious !! You should overthink Your whole attitude about what You say and what You do ! Never mind the wrong smell You spray out here for guys dreaming about this sort of adventure, still busy building up the plan to hunt one day in africa, searching here for reliable advise and governence.
@fourfive8
thanks for Your picture and comment. Pictures do say often more than a 1000 words. I’m happy to see that You, obviously blessed with real experience, share my thoughts.

What animal? No picture was included. You didn't even name a species. A .300 Win Mag is not a .30-06.
People in Africa have been using the .303 Brit and 7x57 to kill just about everything for over a hundred years. With all of your vast experience, you must know that.
I never suggested shooting an elephant with a .243. I won't even shoot a deer with one. What I said was that I would not feel under gunned with a .300 Win Mag and 200 grain Accubonds, and I wouldn't be. The hot 7mm's are legal for both giraffe and eland, but I wouldn't be happy with using one for either of those animals myself. Maybe you can't shoot as well as I do. An eland with a broken leg really won't care if you used a 7mm Rem Mag, a .300 WM, a .375 or a .458.
Keep working on your shooting. Maybe you'll get there.

 

[Rosch]

@Doug Hamilton
The link of the picture I'm refering to is beneath the quote in the post ......
Yellow bright marked. Look closer....... helps sometimes

I do critisize Your post, that You think You're ".....not feeling undergunned" with a 300 Win and 200 grain shooting at giraffe or eland. And I've said: You are.
Some details in front: Giraffe bones are the most hard bones in african wildlife. They were used for weapons and tools before the white man entered the continent. So giraffe is not made of wet phonebooks!
Then, I shot myself about 10 Elands from big to small and I exeprienced every time, that eland is an example for african severity and mobility. In any way!! This animal stands, about 1000kg lifeweight, next to a cattle fence ( 120-140cm) and jumps out of the stand over that fencing without a blink! Just like this.
This animal is stout, made of pure muscles, damed thick bones and fat inside everywhere. Even a 375H&H is quiet busy chewing a way through all this tissue and rocket hard material.
You talk like it's a walk in the park to hunt it save and humane with a 300 Winchester? My opinion: Bullshit!
Besides, the 375, (which I would carry minimum for a hunt like this) offers power, which is double relating to "killing power score" (https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm) than the 300 Win.
We've one successfull hunter (@fourfive8) with a big nice eland bull down and dead in the upper post. (Ach ja...For the photo just click the Link down here ).

https://www.africahunting.com/attachments/488487/

No, not just a talker, he's a real hunter with a picture as a proof. You will read about that guy, that he felt happy with the 416 and not overgunned. And .416 is quiet far above my advise.
In respect of the thread owner I finish my comments about this issue right here.
Wright, do and think what You want and remember my words when You walk sweating and swearing behind Your expensive trophy, worrying if it will be found before night or the maggots and shakals get it first ??! We'll see.. !

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doug Hamilton
The link of the picture I'm refering to is beneath the quote in the post ......
Yellow bright marked. Look closer....... helps sometimes

I do critisize Your post, that You think You're ".....not feeling undergunned" with a 300 Win and 200 grain shooting at giraffe or eland. And I've said: You are.
Some details in front: Giraffe bones are the most hard bones in african wildlife. They were used for weapons and tools before the white man entered the continent. So giraffe is not made of wet phonebooks!
Then, I shot myself about 10 Elands from big to small and I exeprienced every time, that eland is an example for african severity and mobility. In any way!! This animal stands, about 1000kg lifeweight, next to a cattle fence ( 120-140cm) and jumps out of the stand over that fencing without a blink! Just like this.
This animal is stout, made of pure muscles, damed thick bones and fat inside everywhere. Even a 375H&H is quiet busy chewing a way through all this tissue and rocket hard material.
You talk like it's a walk in the park to hunt it save and humane with a 300 Winchester? My opinion: Bullshit!
Besides, the 375, (which I would carry minimum for a hunt like this) offers power, which is double relating to "killing power score" (https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm) than the 300 Win.
We've one successfull hunter (@fourfive8) with a big nice eland bull down and dead in the upper post. (Ach ja...For the photo just click the Link down here ).

https://www.africahunting.com/attachments/488487/

No, not just a talker, he's a real hunter with a picture as a proof. You will read about that guy, that he felt happy with the 416 and not overgunned. And .416 is quiet far above my advise.
In respect of the thread owner I finish my comments about this issue right here.
Wright, do and think what You want and remember my words when You walk sweating and swearing behind Your expensive trophy, worrying if it will be found before night or the maggots and shakals get it first ??! We'll see.. !

Oh for crying out loud! Will you give it a rest?
I have watched eland and giraffe many times and am quite familiar with them. If I wanted to shoot one and had a .375 or .416 at hand I would use it. I would also use my..458 if that is what I happened to be carrying at the time. That does not.mean that I would.not, or could not, kill either.one with.the rifle and.load that I mentioned. Maybe you can't, but I can. Now bugger off.

 

[Rosch]

Sorry, but I'm allready out of office !

 

[crs]

My PH on first safari told me that my W FW pre 64 .308 would be OK for all PG in RSA as he did that as a teenager. He was right, including Eland. He also really liked my Ruger77 .338 for the bigger critters. It seemed to me the ability to place the right bullet in the right place was more important than the caliber or brand of the maker of the rifle.