Tipping Guide

[rookhawk]

i hate this subject,i dont tip my doctor,dinest,etc.wont tip who i buy a car from.how much for the hunt? thats it!!! now,if their is some one who i feel went over and beyond, he gets the extra,between him and me,or her.

Tell the operators your world view before you ask them for a quotation for services. Many cultures do not tip, if you tell them you relate to their view you’’ll get their price list.

 

[coreydb]

I am a firm believer in tipping and want the entire hunting world to know the reasons, beyond being a monetary gesture of gratitude and thanks. While it appears that they're just doing their jobs like dentists, the work you see is like seeing the tip of the iceberg. I have two friends I made who are PH/outfitters and they both said tips are not expected or required, but enlightened me over what it takes to make every hunt appear effortless, easy and "no problem". They allowed me extra days no charge, to engage in their pre- and in between hunt preparations, and general safari support. I was so embarrassed over my ignorance, but I experienced first-hand the logistical and support challenges of the business. Their work is similar to the coal miners of the past; no pay until they hit the veins. Until then, all digging is unpaid. Same with the outfitters. It takes a lot of money to staff and maintain not only the lodges, but their concessions, and there are always problems. They also pay for anti-poaching teams, or else there would be no game to hunt. The continent is so poor, poaching is done to subsist. All this money spent before a hunt and no one gets paid unless hunters come. It's the extra and unseen effort given that in my opinion, absolutely warrants a kind monetary gift of thanks an gratitude.

 

[Foxi]

I am a firm believer in tipping and want the entire hunting world to know the reasons, beyond being a monetary gesture of gratitude and thanks. While it appears that they're just doing their jobs like dentists, the work you see is like seeing the tip of the iceberg. I have two friends I made who are PH/outfitters and they both said tips are not expected or required, but enlightened me over what it takes to make every hunt appear effortless, easy and "no problem". They allowed me extra days no charge, to engage in their pre- and in between hunt preparations, and general safari support. I was so embarrassed over my ignorance, but I experienced first-hand the logistical and support challenges of the business. Their work is similar to the coal miners of the past; no pay until they hit the veins. Until then, all digging is unpaid. Same with the outfitters. It takes a lot of money to staff and maintain not only the lodges, but their concessions, and there are always problems. They also pay for anti-poaching teams, or else there would be no game to hunt. The continent is so poor, poaching is done to subsist. All this money spent before a hunt and no one gets paid unless hunters come. It's the extra and unseen effort given that in my opinion, absolutely warrants a kind monetary gift of thanks an gratitude.

In almost all professions, you have upfront payments that are not actually paid. there are -enough- outfitters who only hire their people for board and lodging and advertise that you get plenty of tips.... they won't always tell you the truth.
I find this begging for tips more or less unapologetically unworthy and the outfitters should pay their people decently, which they often don't do.
You also have to earn thanks, not expect extra for work that is taken for granted and for which I was hired.

 

[coreydb]

In almost all professions, you have upfront payments that are not actually paid. there are -enough- outfitters who only hire their people for board and lodging and advertise that you get plenty of tips.... they won't always tell you the truth.
I find this begging for tips more or less unapologetically unworthy and the outfitters should pay their people decently, which they often don't do.
You also have to earn thanks, not expect extra for work that is taken for granted and for which I was hired.

You are spot on with your criticism. For those folks who have their hand out expecting a tip, I DO NOT give them anything; they can go to you know where. Tips are earned, not expected. As for those outfitters who hire these people, It will be a "one and done" hunt with them. The key to good and worthy service is to research the outfitters prior to a hunt. It's easy to get good reviews and comments on an outfitter by asking the question in Africahunting.com. That's what I did with my first safari and still do now. That's why I support tipping; the exceptions are nailed by Foxi.

 

[Foxi]

You are spot on with your criticism. For those folks who have their hand out expecting a tip, I DO NOT give them anything; they can go to you know where. Tips are earned, not expected. As for those outfitters who hire these people, It will be a "one and done" hunt with them. The key to good and worthy service is to research the outfitters prior to a hunt. It's easy to get good reviews and comments on an outfitter by asking the question in Africahunting.com. That's what I did with my first safari and still do now. That's why I support tipping; the exceptions are nailed by Foxi.

I see it the same way you do.
I always include tips in my budget.
But you have to earn it.

 

[mark-hunter]

I am afraid boys, you will note get "likes" on your posts from American clients.
There are two different tipping cultures here, American and European.
Americans tip, Europeans much less.
That how it is.

 

[375Fox]

I am afraid boys, you will note get "likes" on your posts from American clients.
There are two different tipping cultures here, American and European.
Americans tip, Europeans much less.
That how it is.

If I post I love paying 20%-25% VAT when I’m in Europe will I get European likes? I’m not going to understand European objection to tipping for personal service, but I am beginning to understand why the more successful outfitters and better PHs generally cater to the American market.

 

[375Fox]

i hate this subject,i dont tip my doctor,dinest,etc.wont tip who i buy a car from.how much for the hunt? thats it!!! now,if their is some one who i feel went over and beyond, he gets the extra,between him and me,or her.

Does your PH tell you he won’t start work until 9 and his day ends at 5? Your comparisons are irrelevant. There is a lot that goes on during your hunt that is outside of regular hours to make it successful. Tipping is for personal service as much as a minimum unquoted (and untaxed for both you and staff) cost if you are happy with hunt.

 

[mark-hunter]

If I post I love paying 20%-25% VAT when I’m in Europe will I get European likes? I

You will get one like from me, for this post!
Good one!

Different cultures....
I'have been to more then 60 countries in the world, and can feel cultural differences in far away lands.
I work with multinational company for years always with at least 10-12 nationalities around from two or three continents.

So, I understand cultural differences, especially when some people with less world wide travel experience have a cultural misunderstanding (euphemism for "getting shocked").

(By this, i dont mean you, but my general impression on the forum and in a real life )

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am a firm believer in tipping and want the entire hunting world to know the reasons, beyond being a monetary gesture of gratitude and thanks. While it appears that they're just doing their jobs like dentists, the work you see is like seeing the tip of the iceberg. I have two friends I made who are PH/outfitters and they both said tips are not expected or required, but enlightened me over what it takes to make every hunt appear effortless, easy and "no problem". They allowed me extra days no charge, to engage in their pre- and in between hunt preparations, and general safari support. I was so embarrassed over my ignorance, but I experienced first-hand the logistical and support challenges of the business. Their work is similar to the coal miners of the past; no pay until they hit the veins. Until then, all digging is unpaid. Same with the outfitters. It takes a lot of money to staff and maintain not only the lodges, but their concessions, and there are always problems. They also pay for anti-poaching teams, or else there would be no game to hunt. The continent is so poor, poaching is done to subsist. All this money spent before a hunt and no one gets paid unless hunters come. It's the extra and unseen effort given that in my opinion, absolutely warrants a kind monetary gift of thanks an gratitude.

@coreydb
After our hunt our PH had someone coming to hunt leopard. This hunt was to take place 10 days after we left.
For us it was great. We got to go out with his hunting dogs chasing wart hog for bait. We also got to shoot a few for FREE for him for bait.
To set up for the leopard hunt takes about 10 days of hard work, setting baits building blinds and a heap of other stuff.
It is only after that the hunt can happen.
So factor in ten days work, the animals for bait, staff time, the time the PH spends, insurance, wages and other sundry items before you can even begin to hunt and you can understand the cost. They can't be expected to do all that work prior for free. I know I wouldn't.
Then like other professionals you have to factor in for their skills and knowledge which without it wouldn't be worth it.
Just saying no-one should be expected to work for free.
Bob

 

[Rare Breed]

Tell the operators your world view before you ask them for a quotation for services. Many cultures do not tip, if you tell them you relate to their view you’’ll get their price list.

Too funny @rookhawk !!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

@coreydb
After our hunt our PH had someone coming to hunt leopard. This hunt was to take place 10 days after we left.
For us it was great. We got to go out with his hunting dogs chasing wart hog for bait. We also got to shoot a few for FREE for him for bait.
To set up for the leopard hunt takes about 10 days of hard work, setting baits building blinds and a heap of other stuff.
It is only after that the hunt can happen.
So factor in ten days work, the animals for bait, staff time, the time the PH spends, insurance, wages and other sundry items before you can even begin to hunt and you can understand the cost. They can't be expected to do all that work prior for free. I know I wouldn't.
Then like other professionals you have to factor in for their skills and knowledge which without it wouldn't be worth it.
Just saying no-one should be expected to work for free.
Bob

Please don’t misunderstand me…I tip well and happy to do so! However, all the stuff mentioned, pre baiting, etc is charged to the hunters and factored into the cost charged as it should be! However, I tip for all the effort put fourth when I am there on the hunt based on my experience given I have already paid for what is described. Seeing how hard my trackers work with my ph with them more disappointed than me after a tough day…seeing the pride my chef puts into each meal served me and my room spotless and not a wrinkle in my clothing each day that is what has me thoroughly enjoying leaving g a very nice well deserved tip and is why I like to personally give the tip to each person so they can look me in the eye and in addition to my verbal praise and thanks they see how much I value their efforts for me during the hunt…just my POV

 

[mark-hunter]

After our hunt our PH had someone coming to hunt leopard. This hunt was to take place 10 days after we left.
For us it was great. We got to go out with his hunting dogs chasing wart hog for bait. We also got to shoot a few for FREE for him for bait.

I agree.

The best time to go on Safari is one week after Eland hunter went home, and one or two weeks before leopard hunter arrives to camp.

In that way, with such proper timing, you will have fantastic eland steaks for barbeque, and get to shoot bait warthogs for free.
I learned that in 2018!

Photo below - warthogs for bait.

 

[Russ16]

I am afraid boys, you will note get "likes" on your posts from American clients.
There are two different tipping cultures here, American and European.
Americans tip, Europeans much less.
That how it is.

Part of that is our different economies. To my knowledge there are not tipped minimum wage levels in Europe. In the US most restaurant workers make a pittance if a wage and tips are expected. This is in lieu of higher prices being charged on the meal. It’s a bit of a silly system but how it works here. You can say that the worker should be paid for the work and not tip expected but that just isn’t the way it is. There are historical and complex reasons for this difference including the differing presence and power of labor unions.

My suspicion is that some hunting operations operate in a similar way with workers not paid what they really should be but the promise/expectation of tips. If one doesn’t tip the worker is who is screwed not the outfitter or restaurant owner.

Personally if prefer that business owners pay a real wage and then charge the prices needed to sustain that. But that’s not how it alway works and my primary concern is that the people working hard are taken care of. If that costs me a bit extra or requires me to tip then so be it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Please don’t misunderstand me…I tip well and happy to do so! However, all the stuff mentioned, pre baiting, etc is charged to the hunters and factored into the cost charged as it should be! However, I tip for all the effort put fourth when I am there on the hunt based on my experience given I have already paid for what is described. Seeing how hard my trackers work with my ph with them more disappointed than me after a tough day…seeing the pride my chef puts into each meal served me and my room spotless and not a wrinkle in my clothing each day that is what has me thoroughly enjoying leaving g a very nice well deserved tip and is why I like to personally give the tip to each person so they can look me in the eye and in addition to my verbal praise and thanks they see how much I value their efforts for me during the hunt…just my POV

@Rare Breed
I didn't miss understand you at all. I know how generous you and others on this site are.
I was trying to let other know some of the behind scenes stuff that goes in beforehand so we can have a great time and good hunt.
Some new members may not realise all that goes into making the hunt happen before they get there.
I like you like to thank the staff personally and tell them how much they are appreciated.
I even cooked for our crews,the PH and his family as well as the cook and her helper.
I served to cook and her helper first and they were very surprised and great full. This had never happened before in their lives and they felt very special and appreciated to the point they were in tears they were that happy
To me it was a small thing, to them it meant the world.
Bob

 

[Russ16]

@Rare Breed
I didn't miss understand you at all. I know how generous you and others on this site are.
I was trying to let other know some of the behind scenes stuff that goes in beforehand so we can have a great time and good hunt.
Some new members may not realise all that goes into making the hunt happen before they get there.
I like you like to thank the staff personally and tell them how much they are appreciated.
I even cooked for our crews,the PH and his family as well as the cook and her helper.
I served to cook and her helper first and they were very surprised and great full. This had never happened before in their lives and they felt very special and appreciated to the point they were in tears they were that happy
To me it was a small thing, to them it meant the world.
Bob

That’s incredibly cool. You’re fortunate to have had that opportunity.

 

[mark-hunter]

Personally if prefer that business owners pay a real wage and then charge the prices needed to sustain that. But that’s not how it alway works and my primary concern is that the people working hard are taken care of. If that costs me a bit extra or requires me to tip then so be it.

That sounds fine in a perfect World.
But in reality no outfitter will discuss employment contract and benefit package of his staff with a client.
So, we can only assume.

Europeans get paid, and on each bill they pay VAT, and pay other taxes annually. For average European, who maybe did not travel internationally often, and who in his profession has never got tipped, it is hard to understand.

Americans in some professions have different way, and obviously have usual tipping - so they can compare.

Two cultures.
And with African way, there is the third African culture in the mix.

There should be actually two sperate threads here, because one does not exactly follow the other, each one pulls in its own direction (my conclusion after 71 pages and 1417 posts), and we have no conclusion on something which is fairly simple.
American tipping guide.
European tipping guide.

 

[Russ16]

That sounds fine in a perfect World.
But in reality no outfitter will discuss employment contract and benefit package of his staff with a client.
So, we can only assume.

Europeans get paid, and on each bill they pay VAT, and pay other taxes annually. For average European, who maybe did not travel internationally often, and who in his profession has never got tipped, it is hard to understand.

Americans in some professions have different way, and obviously have usual tipping - so they can compare.

Two cultures.
And with African way, there is the third African culture in the mix.

There should be actually two sperate threads here, because one does not exactly follow the other, each one pulls in its own direction (my conclusion after 71 pages and 1417 posts), and we have no conclusion on something which is fairly simple.
American tipping guide.
European tipping guide.

I completely agree. I’m an American who actually prefers the European system but have to deal with the one we have here.

There is a reason that Miami has an automatic service charge applied to bills in restaurants. It goes straight to the waitstaff. So many European tourists were visiting and not used to our system that waitstaff were getting killed. So they instituted the automatic service charge. The irony is that American tourists don’t realize it and tip on top of it basically leaving a double tip.

Completely agree it gets tough when dealing with multiple cultures.

 

[mark-hunter]

I’m an American who actually prefers the European system but have to deal with the one we have here.

Me, as European (but I think it is equally unpleasant for Americans) is situation where I dont know what is actually expected and where actually the line of realistic tip is drawn. In average, hunting safari is not everyday situation for most of the westerners, to get accustomed to. (I think, in fact, it is once in a life time affair for most)

Basically, we dont want to embarrass ourselves. Grey area. And some tips mentioned here go beyond my wildest imagination.

So this thread has a potential to grow for next 1000 pages (like twilight zone)...

 

[grand veneur]

Part of that is our different economies. To my knowledge there are not tipped minimum wage levels in Europe. In the US most restaurant workers make a pittance if a wage and tips are expected. This is in lieu of higher prices being charged on the meal. It’s a bit of a silly system but how it works here. You can say that the worker should be paid for the work and not tip expected but that just isn’t the way it is. There are historical and complex reasons for this difference including the differing presence and power of labor unions.

My suspicion is that some hunting operations operate in a similar way with workers not paid what they really should be but the promise/expectation of tips. If one doesn’t tip the worker is who is screwed not the outfitter or restaurant owner.

Personally if prefer that business owners pay a real wage and then charge the prices needed to sustain that. But that’s not how it alway works and my primary concern is that the people working hard are taken care of. If that costs me a bit extra or requires me to tip then so be it.

Paying people good wages would certainly be the best solution, but then the base prices of the hunts will be higher, which is not good for attracting the client. We all know that this prices are much lower on the offers than they are in reality, but it attracts the customer who has the feeling that he is receiving a reasonably priced offer. If the final price, including the correct payment for employees and all the additional costs, were to appear immediately on an offer, perhaps some people would not book the hunt. I have 40 years of experience hunting worldwide, including 30 years regularly in Africa. I am not blinded by my hunts for a long time and look at things much more realistically, especially when it comes to hunting in Africa. We are sold dreams and things are getting worse with nowadays mass management that hunting in Africa has become. It is increasingly resembling an industry of mass tourism.