What is the ultimate stopping rifle..?

[CoElkHunter]

No doubt you've seen it but here's one of Lefty turning the corners at Reno. Don't know if any sagebrush was involved on this particular day.

View attachment 570667

I went to the Reno race once in the mid '80s. It was AWESOME! I don't remember the P38(s) but the Mustangs were prevalent and seemed dominant.

 

[Tam Dl]

Seriously? You can use tactical aircraft on dangerous game now?

 

[Zambezi]

A-10 Warthog... need I say more

 

[BenKK]

Seriously? You can use tactical aircraft on dangerous game now?

A fair bit of that went on during World War Two with fighters based around Darwin shooting-up buffalo on the floodplains.

 

[Franco]

Seriously? You can use tactical aircraft on dangerous game now?

I guess it depends on your definition of tactical and what you consider dangerous. I've killed more ducks with a PBY than with a shotgun, a flock of seagulls wiped out one engine on a 757 on a departure from San Francisco Airport, and a good friend was killed when a pelican went through the canopy of the P-51 he was flying.

 

[CJW]

I went to the Reno race once in the mid '80s. It was AWESOME! I don't remember the P38(s) but the Mustangs were prevalent and seemed dominant.

Yeah it's hard to beat a slicked up and hopped up mustang. Wish I could have seen it in the 80's.

 

[rookhawk]

I suspect the reason that professionals of the means prefer the 500J and the 577NE is not just the penetration, but the concussive force to stop a charge, even with an imperfect-but-close shot. A marginal brain shot from one of those stoppers will have the best chance of causing instant unconsciousness which is as good as dead for a professional saving a client's life.

 

[Pondoro]

I suspect the reason that professionals of the means prefer the 500J and the 577NE is not just the penetration, but the concussive force to stop a charge, even with an imperfect-but-close shot. A marginal brain shot from one of those stoppers will have the best chance of causing instant unconsciousness which is as good as dead for a professional saving a client's life.

Happened to a friend of mine...tried to brainshoot a bull ele with a .577...it went down for 20min..presumed dead but had to be shot again..

 

[Tanks]

Happened to a friend of mine...tried to brainshoot a bull ele with a .577...it went down for 20min..presumed dead but had to be shot again..

My PH on the last two elephant hunts, Dean Kendall of CMS, will not let a client with a .375 do a frontal brain shot on big-bodied bulls for this reason.

 

[TOBY458]

Well I disagree...
Bullet choice is really not part of the discussion as we will both be using 570 or 600 grain bullets.
Non rebated rim of the Gibbs is superior to the Jeff.
The Gibbs operates at much lower pressures than the Jeff.
Story after story of Jeff's not being able to feed correctly even after coming from a gunsmith.
My Gibbs is prettier than your Jeff so that's it I win!

HH

The 500J is kind of like the 458 Win Mag of the 50 calibers. And the 505 is more like the 450 Rigby. Just kidding @IvW !

 

[Bert the Turtle]

If semi-auto rifles are allowed, I think the M1 in 458 Win Mag might be the best stopping rifle assuming it is reliable and the rear sight was opened up- need a big, quick ring, not a target sight.

M1 handles better than anything with a protruding box magazine, isn’t too heavy, and surely wins the “a double has a faster second shot/ a bolt has more magazine capacity” argument.

 

[CoElkHunter]

If semi-auto rifles are allowed, I think the M1 in 458 Win Mag might be the best stopping rifle assuming it is reliable and the rear sight was opened up- need a big, quick ring, not a target sight.

M1 handles better than anything with a protruding box magazine, isn’t too heavy, and surely wins the “a double has a faster second shot/ a bolt has more magazine capacity” argument.

I wonder how they keep the operating rod from bending under the higher pressure of the .458?

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I wonder how they keep the operating rod from bending under the higher pressure of the .458?

Adjustable gas plug

 

[Daniel Cary]

Double would be a Krieghoff Essencia Big Five in 500NE.
View attachment 569268

Bolt action would be a Blaser R8 500J, something like this would fit the bill nicely.
View attachment 569273

Not that it matter's. I would love to at least see the Essencia Rifle. I like everything but am kinda partial to Round Body's.
Thought the attached Smith built it with K?

Big-Five Double Rifle

www.ziegenhahn.de

 

[John Telford]

If semi-auto rifles are allowed, I think the M1 in 458 Win Mag might be the best stopping rifle assuming it is reliable and the rear sight was opened up- need a big, quick ring, not a target sight.

M1 handles better than anything with a protruding box magazine, isn’t too heavy, and surely wins the “a double has a faster second shot/ a bolt has more magazine capacity” argument.

My choice would be the .416 Taylor in BAR configuration. (I’m working on getting this approved for Botswana Wildlife staff since they had their SCAR .308 taken away..)

 

[grand veneur]

My PH on the last two elephant hunts, Dean Kendall of CMS, will not let a client with a .375 do a frontal brain shot on big-bodied bulls for this reason.

I can well understand why, but the 375 is also not ideal for a heart respectively body shot on elephants. The side brain shot is not easy either and what is left for the client is that the PH also has to shoot in almost all cases. Here we are back on the topic of cartridges for elephant hunting, but is an other topic.

 

[Tanks]

I can well understand why, but the 375 is also not ideal for a heart respectively body shot on elephants. The side brain shot is not easy either and what is left for the client is that the PH also has to shoot in almost all cases. Here we are back on the topic of cartridges for elephant hunting, but is an other topic.

He recommends side brain as it is easier to find a place to aim whereas on a frontal the point of impact changes depending on the head position. In regard to elephant cartridges my views regarding "rat calibers" have been expressed ad nauseum in previous posts.

 

[Red Leg]

He recommends side brain as it is easier to find a place to aim whereas on a frontal the point of impact changes depending on the head position. In regard to elephant cartridges my views regarding "rat calibers" have been expressed ad nauseum in previous posts.

I would agree - ad nauseum.

 

[AZDAVE]

On the 500J and 505Gibbs debate they can both be loaded far above the recoil tolerance of most mortals. I have owned both (used the 500 on a backup shot for a buddy on his elephant. There is a marked visual impact observance of the 500 vs a 416) My only problem with the 500J is that could never get it to feed perfectly. Had it worked on by a couple CZ knowledgeable gunsmiths and it was never what I would consider completely acceptable so it went to a CZ collector that needed a 500J. My 505 is a custom that does feed perfectly and reliably it has yet to be taken on a hunt. (2025 most likely).

That 458 Garand is a nice idea but in my opinion is a accident waiting to happen. While a adjustable gas block can keep the operating rod intact. The bolt thrust of the 458 is way above the 30/06 the garand was designed for.

 

[CoElkHunter]

My choice would be the .416 Taylor in BAR configuration. (I’m working on getting this approved for Botswana Wildlife staff since they had their SCAR .308 taken away..)

Yes, if you could find a BAR in .300 or .338WM, all you would need is a .416 Taylor chambered barrel. All of the case dimensions are the same. Even a BAR in 7mmRM would work I would think. I love shooting my Interarms Whitworth Taylor and the cases are so easily formed from .458WM brass. I haven't tried using .300 or .338 brass yet.