Which Double Rifle Caliber is worth the investment in 2023?

[Tiger2001]

Just wondering why you mention those bolt calibres ?...don't think issues with ammo for them...505 might be harder but it's being made ...the gunshop I use here has had delivery..500ne..505..470ne..500j..416 rigby..404...plus other ones ...450/400 there as well...

Hi Mike. I just mentioned the bolt action calibers as there are no new makers for them that I can see. With CZ closing their 550 line the 505 and 404 will go back into the history books. Ditto for the 416 Rigby with the loss of CZ and Ruger no longer making it in their No. 1 and Mark II models. I can't see ammo makers producing those calibers for much longer. I could be wrong of course and hope I am. Regardless, the focus of my original query was the health/longevity of the two DR calibers 470 and 450/400. I hope they're both around for many years as well, but I do have my doubts.

 

[Tiger2001]

Norma also make the .500 Nitro Express.

But do they really? Again, not be argumentative but because Norma once made ammo in 500 NE (and for that matter in 450/400, 375 flanged etc), when is the last time anyone saw a box of Norma ammo for sale and available? Im not talking new old stock someone offered up as a personal sale. I don't think these ammo companies are producing current runs for many of these calibers like they used to.

 

[spike.t]

Hi Mike. I just mentioned the bolt action calibers as there are no new makers for them that I can see. With CZ closing their 550 line the 505 and 404 will go back into the history books. Ditto for the 416 Rigby with the loss of CZ and Ruger no longer making it in their No. 1 and Mark II models. I can't see ammo makers producing those calibers for much longer. I could be wrong of course and hope I am. Regardless, the focus of my original query was the health/longevity of the two DR calibers 470 and 450/400. I hope they're both around for many years as well, but I do have my doubts.

Hopefully you are being a bit pessimistic....470 plenty rifles out there so a demand , and with the 450/400 I hope not as I quite fancy one after looking at the 2 on the chapuis stand at sci....

 

[Tiger2001]

Hopefully you are being a bit pessimistic....470 plenty rifles out there so a demand , and with the 450/400 I hope not as I quite fancy one after looking at the 2 on the chapuis stand at sci....

Yes, I hope I am being too pessimistic. Maybe the worm has turned in 2023 and we can get back to the way it was in terms of ammo and DR manufacturers as it was just a few years ago!

 

[Pondoro]

But do they really? Again, not be argumentative but because Norma once made ammo in 500 NE (and for that matter in 450/400, 375 flanged etc), when is the last time anyone saw a box of Norma ammo for sale and available? Im not talking new old stock someone offered up as a personal sale. I don't think these ammo companies are producing current runs for many of these calibers like they used to.

After visiting the Norma factory a couple of years ago I can say that the big bore safari ammo was more or less handloaded by one or two individuals.. Rumour says it has been some turmoil after Beretta bought them and key personell quitted..so we will see...Beretta also own Holland & Holland so perhaps they will continue limited production to secure ammo for regulation..

 

[WC86]

+1 for reloading if you’re interested in niche calibers—which essentially all DG cartridges are.
I can find components available for just about anything on at least a yearly basis (and can almost always special order brass from folks like Bertram) and can put together excellent ammo from this.
although I agree completely with preferring to know that commercial-off-the-shelf ammo is routinely available for your rifle, in most DG calibers this is not realistic or has only been realistic for a decade or two of the last 80 years. Sad to recognize that perhaps 2000-2020 were “the good old days”. Maybe they come back but the recent changes in cartridge offerings from certain makers may suggests otherwise as you say.
that said, although I currently only own and routinely shoot 375 (which will be available until the end of time) at the edge of this power band I’ve owned and shot and reloaded for bigger and I’m currently back in the hunt for my own. And I shoot a few smaller esoteric calibers with limited component availability so I know the struggle.

From my routine pings of both ammo and component availability (US only, double rifle) the answer is 470 followed by 450/400 3” and then 500.

I doubt this changes

If you’re interested or willing to reload though and you have another, more esoteric cartridge in mind, I’d get started with reloading first, buy/stock up on high quality components and dies for the caliber of your choice second, and then have a gun built third

Good luck, fun hobby

 

[Green Chile]

They will never quit making 470 ammo and 450/400 is easy to find. I think reloading is the key to getting good time with any double. I will have over 300 rounds through my 500NE between now and my hunt in July. I can't imagine anyone doing that with factory ammo prices, which would take over $2k to practice that much. With reloading, I can cut that expense in half or better.

 

[WC86]

Agree, practice with any gun you plan to use (much less DG) is critical and DG calibers are perhaps the most economical calibers to reload

 

[DLSJR]

Another vote for the 470. I used to have one, a Rigby built in 1923 and it was a wonderful rifle that I used on both buffalo and elephant. I sold that rifle about 20 years ago but lately have been itching to get another double. I’ll almost certainly get another 470, especially since I still have loading dies, some brass and bullets. It’s a great cartridge and since ammo and components can be found, a no-brainer for me. I’d love to see what modern 470 bullets do compared to what I shot back in the 1980’s.

 

[SETH RINGER]

Hi Seth. You got my attention. What is exactly a Beretta Express Rifle and where does one find one? I have no issues with the 458 Win Mag personally and own a Win M70 in one. But I didn't think anyone was manufacturing them in DR's since CZ/BRNO came out with their "BRNO Stopper" some years ago.

I DON'T THINK BERETTA IS MAKING ANY MASS PRODUCED BIG BORE RIFLES RIFLES RIGHT NOW BUT IN THE NOT TO DISTANT PAST THEY MADE THE 455 SXS IN NITRO CALIBERS AND THE SS06 O/U (WHAT WE HAVE) IN .375 H&H AND .458 WIN MAG. WHEN MY SON GETS ME SOME PICTS I'LL OPEN A NEW THREAD AND POST THE UP.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

If ammo is your concern you need to pick .470. Federal and Hornady load it where as 450/400 is loaded only by Hornady.

I've got a dealer buddy with a 450/400. The last few years, I'm always on the look-out for 450/400 in other shops for him because of how hard it is to find, and that's someone who owns a Gun Shop.

 

[Mountaineer]

Here you go Kevin.

 

[Tiger2001]

If ammo is your concern you need to pick .470. Federal and Hornady load it where as 450/400 is loaded only by Hornady.

I've got a dealer buddy with a 450/400. The last few years, I'm always on the look-out for 450/400 in other shops for him because of how hard it is to find, and that's someone who owns a Gun Shop.

Thank you sir. That is exactly what I was afraid of re the ammo availability for the 450/400. Great caliber and I owned and hunted with one in a Ruger No.1. But I could see the writing on the wall with both Kynoch and Norma ceasing production for it and it was down to only Hornady. I wish the firearm/ammo/safari industry would get their collective act together. What's the point of Heym, Krieghoff, Chapuis and VC producing DR's in a caliber that only one company is making ammo for?

 

[Sourdough]

Nosler makes 500NE (in stock and I shoot it in my VC 500NE) and 470NE (out if stock) and the 500/416 (in stock).

https://www.nosler.com/products/ammunition/product-line/trophy-gradetm-safari.html

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

View attachment 526447Here you go Kevin.

Thank you, it is beautiful, nice proportions.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Thank you sir. That is exactly what I was afraid of re the ammo availability for the 450/400. Great caliber and I owned and hunted with one in a Ruger No.1. But I could see the writing on the wall with both Kynoch and Norma ceasing production for it and it was down to only Hornady. I wish the firearm/ammo/safari industry would get their collective act together. What's the point of Heym, Krieghoff, Chapuis and VC producing DR's in a caliber that only one company is making ammo for?

I think we may well see a second producer for the 450/400 in the near future. It is all about viability and all those suppliers are indeed producing 450/400's more than other calibres. Does anyone have stats to support this?

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Thank you sir. That is exactly what I was afraid of re the ammo availability for the 450/400. Great caliber and I owned and hunted with one in a Ruger No.1. But I could see the writing on the wall with both Kynoch and Norma ceasing production for it and it was down to only Hornady. I wish the firearm/ammo/safari industry would get their collective act together. What's the point of Heym, Krieghoff, Chapuis and VC producing DR's in a caliber that only one company is making ammo for?

A lot of folks prefer to handload for their DG rifles. I'd venture to guess more projectiles are sold for the bigger calibers than loaded ammo

 

[Mopani]

The problem with Heym is two-fold; an unGodly long wait time AND being told that as a US citizen I can only order a DR via Heym USA in TX by some odd agreement between Heym. Doesn't matter that I am a US citizen who may not return to the US for many years. So that likely limits me to ordering from Krieghoff which fortunately has no such absurd restriction between Krieghoff Germany and its US office in PA.

Why don’t you ask a German hunter to purchase the rifle? Once you have received your first Jagdschein (hunting permit)) just purchase the double from him. Easy. BTW, I’m a German hunter, living in Germany’s Black Forest and in South Africa’s Western Cape province.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I don’t own a double, & probably never will, if I were I’d go for a .375 H&H Mag. That ctg is highly thought of everywhere & ammo usually available most everywhere.
another I’d consider would be the .303, even when recoil becomes an issue, you’d enjoy shooting it. It would be a joy to shoot!

 

[spike.t]

I DON'T THINK BERETTA IS MAKING ANY MASS PRODUCED BIG BORE RIFLES RIFLES RIGHT NOW BUT IN THE NOT TO DISTANT PAST THEY MADE THE 455 SXS IN NITRO CALIBERS AND THE SS06 O/U (WHAT WE HAVE) IN .375 H&H AND .458 WIN MAG. WHEN MY SON GETS ME SOME PICTS I'LL OPEN A NEW THREAD AND POST THE UP.

Why you shouting?.....