Which Double Rifle Caliber is worth the investment in 2023?

[Flewis]

Ammo has been more available in 500 lately than the others. Very little 470 on ammo seek. Lots of custom outlets.

 

[Vintageguy]

Ammo has been more available in 500 lately than the others. Very little 470 on ammo seek. Lots of custom outlets.

I’ve noticed this also along with the prices I see on ammoseek and I see several places with 450-400 and 500 in stock and for 1/3 of 470 which is scarce or out of stock yet everyone is saying it’s readily available…? At SCI the 470 was definitely the most common among the doubles there. Apparently there are sources for big bore ammo I’m not aware of?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Likewise people say that 470 is 'easy' here in Africa. I recently tried to source some for my friends, or even components - absolutely nothing.

 

[Tiger2001]

Why don’t you ask a German hunter to purchase the rifle? Once you have received your first Jagdschein (hunting permit)) just purchase the double from him. Easy. BTW, I’m a German hunter, living in Germany’s Black Forest and in South Africa’s Western Cape province.

Thank you for offering to help me Mopani!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Great recommendations. The key also could be finding someone such as myself and several others on here who have three lifetimes of reloading supplies for our doubles. I am selling my Westley Richards in 500 NE and I laughed when I realized it will take two people to carry the hard plastic container of brass, powder, bullets and dies. I know I am not the only one on here that has done that. Of course it means you have to be a reloader. Just my two cents

I was about to make a similar comment, reloading is really the best option by far and as I am sure you already know you don't actually need that much gear to do so. Be buggered if I am going to pay $30 a round for factory 470 ammo here in Australia when I can reload it myself with the same components for around $5 a round

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

View attachment 526447Here you go Kevin.

That's a kitchen counter it is on, right? Oh dear!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

That's a kitchen counter it is on, right? Oh dear!

Whats wrong with that? Iv'e taken many a photo of rifles on kitchen counters. Also just ask @TOBY458 the kitchen counter is like his shop front haha

 

[Philip Glass]

Hello fellow AH members!

I am back on the hunt for another Double Rifle (DR). I've owned a couple of Merkels and Chapuis in the past (2 from each maker in 9.3x74 and in 470NE). However all have been sold and I am down to one Heym 26b in 9.3x74 which is a terrific rifle. However, I am now looking at either 450/500 NE or a 470NE in a Heym, Chapuis, Krieghoff etc. However in 2023 what REALLY concerns me is the ammunition supply market. We all know the world ended so to speak with the pandemic, social/supply chain issues of the last couple of years. Manufacturers seem (understandably) focused using what few resources there are to manufacture and sell 9mm and 556 ammo which are in high demand. The aforementioned calibers are definitely niche and not reflective of what the general population wants.

That being said, would you all recommend one caliber over the other? Or perhaps one I have not mentioned? Again, I'm not asking from a hunting/ballistics/personal preference angle. Simply which one will have a steady flow of available ammo in the next few years and which calibers will go the way of what happened to the 450NE? For those who don't know, a few years ago Ruger had that caliber in its No.1 and Heym made doubles with Hornady and Kynoch (and maybe Norma) making ammo. People even rushed to rebore old 458 Win Mag doubles into 450NE. And now? A rifle in that caliber might as well be a nice wall decoration and I doubt it's coming back anytime soon. Ditto for the .375 flanged and the .505 Gibbs, 404 Jeffrery, 416 Rigby for bolt actions.

Before I drop 15-20k on a DR in either 470NE or 450/400NE, I want to know there will be an ammo supply.

Thank you in advance for any advice and thoughts anyone out there might have!

It depends on how truly worried you are about ammo supply. The .470 is king of the doubles and has he greatest ammo availability. That said many folks like myself have ventured off to the .450/400 and its popularity is growing steadily. Hornady is making ammo for it and it can be found with some diligence. It did take me some time to get the ammo put together but now I have plenty.
I am only now getting my hands on my new .450/400 barrels and hope to shoot it soon.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks again for all who responded to my original query. I am an American working/living in Germany for a few years. One of the perks is that I am able to take the three month Jaeger course and obtain a German jagdschein and firearms permit. As such I am looking at either going to Krieghoff in nearby Ulm or over to Heym about 4 hours away to place an order for a double. The problem with Heym is two-fold; an unGodly long wait time AND being told that as a US citizen I can only order a DR via Heym USA in TX by some odd agreement between Heym. Doesn't matter that I am a US citizen who may not return to the US for many years. So that likely limits me to ordering from Krieghoff which fortunately has no such absurd restriction between Krieghoff Germany and its US office in PA. I was just trying to select between the two calibers and it seems the .470 NE is the likely more sensible purchase in terms of being able to feed it with ammo without supply issue concerns. Thank you again for all your advice!

I like Kreighoff better.

 

[AZDAVE]

500 470 450/400 and 9.3x74 would be my choices for a new double. That said I have a 500/416 Krieghoff that I am making sure I have enough brass to last the rest of my lifetime and I plan to till be shooting double when I am 100.

 

[Rare Breed]

I was about to make a similar comment, reloading is really the best option by far and as I am sure you already know you don't actually need that much gear to do so. Be buggered if I am going to pay $30 a round for factory 470 ammo here in Australia when I can reload it myself with the same components for around $5 a round

No question about it...reloading is the way to go.

 

[flying sailor]

Well, I had a bit of fun today. Shot my Chapuis 9.3x74R for the first time. Has a bit of punch due to light weight. like it very much. had it a year, but due to work and lousy weather I would not take it out. came with a Leupold scope and mount. Was a real safe queen. Also bought a Kreighoff .450-400 3" NE last Chrtistmas ( another safe queen). A present to me for staying away from loose women. Have lots of brass and components. Hornady seems to be consistent for ammo the last year. Able to find 9.3x74R and the .450-.400 3" loaded ammo. Should be able to do what I want with my first two doubles. It is best to be able to reload, saves some cash.

 

[jlb1036]

I would go for the old and versatile .470Nitro easy to obtain ammo and reloading components and can be used for light skin dangerous and non dangerous game and alos for all dangerous game with plenty of documented kills and back up guns .

 

[AES]

500\465. Ammo price is relatively irrelevant. They are such a pleasure to shoot. Nothing better imo.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

First choice .470 N Heym 89b
Second choice .450/.400 Heym 89b

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

Holland & Holland 500/465 for the win!!! Ne Plus Ultra. There is NOTHING like a Holland Royal reinforced frame, hand detachable sidelock ejector double rifle. Holland Royal is the double rifle that ALL others are judged against....

Ammunition availability is irrelevant when you handload........

EJ

 

[BeeMaa]

Holland & Holland 500/465 for the win!!! Ne Plus Ultra. There is NOTHING like a Holland Royal reinforced frame, hand detachable sidelock ejector double rifle. Holland Royal is the double rifle that ALL others are judged against....

Ammunition availability is irrelevant when you handload........

EJ

Right up to the point that your luggage is lost. Now go have fun taking the elephant of a lifetime with a camp rifle instead of yours.

My first choice for a new build would be Krieghoff Big Five 470NE, second is Heym 88B 470NE. For a used rifle the Blaser S2 in 470NE would be a great buy.

@Tiger2001 - Best of luck with your decision.

 

[358 Norma]

I think Federal and Hornady is the best bet on .470 ammo onwards..perhaps Norma but they where bought by Beretta (I think..) recently...so I have a bad feeling about their line of Safari rounds, hope I am wrong..

Forget about Kynoch..their supply is at best erratic..some of their ammo is good but not all (personal experience..) Sad really...the owner is 80 + and the future of the company seems uncertain..

Well hopefully since Beretta owns Chapuis arms they will keep making ammunition for the doubles they build.

 

[AES]

Right up to the point that your luggage is lost. Now go have fun taking the elephant of a lifetime with a camp rifle instead of yours.

My first choice for a new build would be Krieghoff Big Five 470NE, second is Heym 88B 470NE. For a used rifle the Blaser S2 in 470NE would be a great buy.

@Tiger2001 - Best of luck with your decision.

That would most always be the case if your luggage is lost... and why you always take 2 rifles, otherwise.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I know of two higher end doubles for sale on AH at the moment, there may be more. In both cases these are ornate versions of standard models with all of the extra asking premium attributed to the aesthetic looks and adding nothing to performance. Both are relatively recent builds. So the question arises - is that worth it? Somewhere, someone may be willing to pay, but it is quite a task to find someone who appreciates the taste of the original commissioner enough to pay top end. If one of us is considering commissioning a new double, it may be prudent to load the the spec of the furniture side of things and stick to only modest engraving. Engraving is in the eye of the beholder, especially scroll work, and it may actually diminish resale value, not enhance it. Unless of course you plan to really keep your beautiful piece forever, then go for it!