Who was at fault, me or the PH?

[Speedster]

.In another thread that has garnered a lot of interest and replies, a person post about his bad experience with his PH and he was unhappy with an animal he shot that the PH told him to. I did not want to hijack the thread but I had a somewhat similar experience several years ago on my first trip to Africa and in hindsight I have wondered if I was at fault.
Here is what happened:'

We spotted a group of gemsbok about a half mile ahead and not wanting to spook them, jumped off the safari truck to begin a stalk. It was getting towards evening and the sun was getting low and straight in front of us so there was a considerable amount of glare as the sun was still above the treetops. It was a pretty dense area which allowed us to catch up to the gemsbok using the dense foliage as cover.

We finally got close and set up for a shot but the sun glare was so severe I had trouble seeing anything through the scope. We swung around to the right to get a better angle. We got a stroke of luck as we found a very small opening in the bush and the gemsbok started walking through it in single file. That gave me a chance for a shot. The PH said he would tell me when he saw one to shoot. I set up and was concentrating on the spot at which I could take the shot and finally the PH saw one walk through and said to shoot, which I did. It was a good shot and we found the gemsbok after a very short tracking.

When I walked up to it, my heart sank. One of the horns was bent back and splintered in 3 or 4 pieces. It was also very short. THE PH said that I did not have to pay for it and could hunt anther one since the damaged horn was less than 24 inches. That was fine but if I would have had to pay for that animal I would not have been happy. The PH even admitted to me he saw that the gemsbok's horn was damaged. As a newbie I did not say anything but in hindsight it rankled me.

So a couple things I have thought about and I am not sure If it was my fault or the PH's.
1. The owner said I could shoot another since one horn was less than 24 inches and their policy was a horn had to be at least that length. He never mentioned that the damaged horn made any difference and it appeared it was all about the length. I did not agree but said nothing. It made me feel that it was my responsibility to determine if an animal has a horn that is damaged (or just plain ugly) and I don't know why the PH did not tell me he saw that the horn was damaged.
2. I was naively relying on the PH to tell me when to shoot and because of the lighting conditions, was really concentrating on the spot rather than looking at the animal's horns. Also, since the animal was walking I had to make a snap shot before it disappeared. Was this my responsibility also?

I am not looking for any type of vindication. Just wondering from others if maybe it was on me. I have thought about the issue many times in the past and after reading the other post with a similar problem it made me wonder if I should have talked to the owner about what I felt or since I got the oppotunity to shoot another animal just keep my mouth shut and drop it.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Bad call was made on an animal and you shot it it. After the fact, it was determined a mistake was made and you were offered another. I don’t see any problem at all. Things happen. They rectified it. I’ve seen that happen twice. Both times with my son. Bad call by the PH or tracker. Both times he was offered another animal. It’s hunting.

 

[Puddle]

Your first trip. Stuff happens. I've seen it myself.
On subsequent trips I've done my homework, I know what I'm looking for, and I communicate that clearly. Communication is key.

 

[K-man]

When a mistake is made, a quick offer to fix it goes a long way. The hunter's attitude helps tremendously. I would call that a learning lesson that didn't cost you any money. All around, the best deal for everyone. Thanks for posting about it. Everyone is human, even an African P.H.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Just my opinion but it's on both you and the PH.
More so on the PH.

The PH saw the gemsbok had a broken horn and still told you to shoot.

You didn't pay attention to the quality of animal you were pulling the trigger on.

You were both at fault for not judging the animals due to daylight getting short and rushing to mark off an animal on your list.

Since you were offered a chance for a better quality animal then IMO all well and good, no need to fret over the incident.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Hey stuff happens.
Gemsbok for me also. We eased into a group. I'm on sticks. PH says second from right. I shoot and it drops on spot. He says looks like a hit keep track on it. That's when I come off gun and say "it dropped.
I was on wrong animal. There were five I only saw four. It was still a good animal but not the 45+ inch one I was supposed to have shot.
Things happen. All I can say. I was happy and paid for it and did take the bigger one also two days later.

 

[Mekaniks]

The owner and the PH recognized the error and tried to make it right. Thats all you can ask...

I have learned to trust my Ph's. If the PH says shoot the 3rd one from the left, I am going to do my best to shoot the 3rd one from the left, unless I have a really good reason not to do so. examples for not doing so might be there is something in the way that that he can't see, or his angle is significantly different than mine.....
If it turns out that his call was less than our expectation before pulling the trigger, then we will deal with it afterwards....I
have never had that happen, but it obviously does and thats all part of hunting....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Actually, it was a good call for everyone. A broken horn animal is just meat (except buffalo ... those are sought after trophies). It's wasting range. Especially defective horns. Don't want that trash in the gene pool. Sometimes the shooter pays a modest fee if the PH takes the meat. If landowner takes the carcass, sometimes no fee. He sells the meat. And gemsbuck is sweet meat! Always welcome in any cooler. Of course, hunter may not be happy paying the daily PH fee and culling an animal. I'm okay with culling anytime a bad animal is encountered. But I've been over four times and filled my list a long time ago.

OP got to shoot an extra animal. Bonus. I'm sure it might have been a bit disappointing at first, but he doubtless soon discovered lots of animals were about. More hunting = more fun. No need for anyone to be concerned about who was at fault. He killed an animal that absolutely needed to be harvested. Give him a medal.

 

[Graham Hunter]

We hunters from North America don't know Squat about judging trophies in Africa. We have to rely on our PH to qualify the animal we shoot. The other thing is for any guided hunt it is a bad idea to dwell on the horns or Antlers. Your job is to make a good shot.

 

[sureshot375]

This is just hunting. He probably saw a mature animal that would ordinarily be a shooter. He had to make a split second decision. Maybe he saw the broke horn and decided he wanted it culled.

He made it right. Nobody is at fault. You got a free hunt. Life is good.

 

[Rare Breed]

Bad call was made on an animal and you shot it it. After the fact, it was determined a mistake was made and you were offered another. I don’t see any problem at all. Things happen. They rectified it. I’ve seen that happen twice. Both times with my son. Bad call by the PH or tracker. Both times he was offered another animal. It’s hunting.

I agree completely with Flipper Dude. In all my safaris Just me I always listen to my PH. Just me it is not my job nor do I have the expertise to score an animal. As soon as I meet my PH before the hunt we discuss what a representative animal will be. Therefore the PH knows what I am looking for and has never ever disappointed me! As with all things good communication BEFORE a possible shooting situation solves almost everything.

 

[Red Leg]

I would hate to be a PH.

 

[kpoynter]

It worked out fine.
1) if he noticed the horn in that split second and to,d you to shoot he almost certainly did so as a Cull at that point. As someone pointed out they utilize the meat but a One Horned/broken horned Gemsbuck is a danger to others and should be shot.
2) if he didn’t notice it technically before but did at that split second the shot went off (also very possible) he quickly realized the F up and made it right

I would ONLY be pissed off if they tried to get me to pay for it as a trophy when it clearly was a Cull

I’ve shot many culls like this including Broken Gemsbuck either for Free of say $200.
I shot 4 broken horned Kudu on one hunt for $600 total lol. All nice bulls. I was happy to have the opportunity

 

[Doug Hamilton]

.In another thread that has garnered a lot of interest and replies, a person post about his bad experience with his PH and he was unhappy with an animal he shot that the PH told him to. I did not want to hijack the thread but I had a somewhat similar experience several years ago on my first trip to Africa and in hindsight I have wondered if I was at fault.
Here is what happened:'

We spotted a group of gemsbok about a half mile ahead and not wanting to spook them, jumped off the safari truck to begin a stalk. It was getting towards evening and the sun was getting low and straight in front of us so there was a considerable amount of glare as the sun was still above the treetops. It was a pretty dense area which allowed us to catch up to the gemsbok using the dense foliage as cover.

We finally got close and set up for a shot but the sun glare was so severe I had trouble seeing anything through the scope. We swung around to the right to get a better angle. We got a stroke of luck as we found a very small opening in the bush and the gemsbok started walking through it in single file. That gave me a chance for a shot. The PH said he would tell me when he saw one to shoot. I set up and was concentrating on the spot at which I could take the shot and finally the PH saw one walk through and said to shoot, which I did. It was a good shot and we found the gemsbok after a very short tracking.

When I walked up to it, my heart sank. One of the horns was bent back and splintered in 3 or 4 pieces. It was also very short. THE PH said that I did not have to pay for it and could hunt anther one since the damaged horn was less than 24 inches. That was fine but if I would have had to pay for that animal I would not have been happy. The PH even admitted to me he saw that the gemsbok's horn was damaged. As a newbie I did not say anything but in hindsight it rankled me.

So a couple things I have thought about and I am not sure If it was my fault or the PH's.
1. The owner said I could shoot another since one horn was less than 24 inches and their policy was a horn had to be at least that length. He never mentioned that the damaged horn made any difference and it appeared it was all about the length. I did not agree but said nothing. It made me feel that it was my responsibility to determine if an animal has a horn that is damaged (or just plain ugly) and I don't know why the PH did not tell me he saw that the horn was damaged.
2. I was naively relying on the PH to tell me when to shoot and because of the lighting conditions, was really concentrating on the spot rather than looking at the animal's horns. Also, since the animal was walking I had to make a snap shot before it disappeared. Was this my responsibility also?

I am not looking for any type of vindication. Just wondering from others if maybe it was on me. I have thought about the issue many times in the past and after reading the other post with a similar problem it made me wonder if I should have talked to the owner about what I felt or since I got the oppotunity to shoot another animal just keep my mouth shut and drop it.

I can't see see anything to be rankled about. On my first safari I was asked to shoot a kudu bull that clearly had a broken horn. The property owner just wanted it culled. As it turned out I couldn't get the shot before the bull jumped the low fence and was on a neighbor property where I couldn't shoot it. If I could have gotten the shot I gladly would have taken it. On my last trip we saw an impala with a messed up horn and the property manager asked me to take it "for camp meat." No problem. Happy to take it.

 

[Aaron N]

Every business makes mistakes. I’m surprised that your PH knowingly told you to shoot that animal but he made it right, and that’s the part that counts.

 

[Pablo]

That happened to me also, except it was a young one on my first trip. We had been stalking a group of gemsbok weaving in and out of the trees. At about 200 yards, it was now or never. There was a great cow in the lead that we were hoping for. There was one more clearing before they would disappear, so that’s where we concentrated on. PH told me to take the cow when she came out of last set of trees. A gemsbok came out, he said to shoot. I shot, it dropped, and it was high 5 time. But wait, it had a serious case of ground shrinkage when we walked up. Evidently, a younger one had swapped places with the big cow in the last trees. I didn’t pay for it, and got a nice bull a few days later. We all had a good laugh about it that night. The ranch owner rubbed it in on both of us, but he wasn’t mad at all. “Mistakes happen!”

 

[Racer00]

On my cow buff hunt last March in Limpopo, we came across a kudu that had gone blind and a couple days later a gemsbuck that was blind as well. Outfitter/PH had me shoot both and gave me the trophies, no charge. They both were in poor shape and I only took the horns. Looking back, I would have taken the skins as well. Would have looked good thrown over the couch. They didn't save the meat.

 

[BRICKBURN]

You are legally required to follow the PH's instructions.
Most first time hunters rely heavily on their PH's. Its part of the deal.
(In my mind too much most of the time.)
That requires a huge amount of trust in the PH and that they are looking after your interests.

A PH has an obligation to protect you and others from dangerous animals, be they wounded or not.
Wounding an Impala is not wounding a Cape Buffalo.
Follow up shots by the PH when there is no real danger to others had better be agreed to before the hunt starts. Danger changes the entire game and obligation on the PH's part.

COMMUNICATION is central to the PH X client relationship. The client must tell the PH what they are after. Expectations must be clear.

Back to the OP: PH accepted responsibility for the aftermath on the Oryx call. What the offer of another animal does not take care of is the erosion of trust between the client and the PH.
"Do I have to call my own animals now or what?"
No you should not have to worry about that. That's what we pay the PH's for: Knowledge and experience with the game we are hunting in a foreign country.
If the PH would have said I am getting you onto a Cull right now, thanks for your help. You'll get the big one tomorrow.


Examples:

1. Before my first hunt I studied trophies extensively and knew enough to be capable of a discussion with the PH. My first PH got a simple question from me on my first animal. "Is it Gold Medal?" I had not studied Eland enough to judge what I had stalked in on. On the same trip before my second hunt I attended PH school for more days than most hunters spend hunting on their first safari. I passed the course and ended up having great fun with subsequent PH's being challenged to do trophy judging in the field. It was nice to be part of the actual hunt and conversation. How big is that Impala?
There is a Kudu @KMG Hunting Safaris had on the wall that was an absolute monster EC Kudu. Marius asked me to guess the number and I was within a half inch. (Kudu make me crazy, they are hard to judge)


2. Staring at a herd of animals that all appear to be clones with a mere couple of inches difference in their horns. I guided a friend to a Blesbok trophy. Scanning that entire damned herd for the best one with them moving and milling was the toughest call I ever made. I agree with @Red Leg 's sentiment: Being a PH is a tough job. It was bloody stressful.
Assessing the trophy, directing a rookie to shoot the exact animal out of 40 plus animals.

3. I had a situation where I was hunting Common Reedbuck and were stalking up on three good rams. We get close enough and the PH knew what I wanted. We are clear.
Sitting in the long grass so close to them I was concerned that they would be spooked. Finally, the PH say's shoot. I reply that there is a tree covering his vitals. The PH's head nearly spins off his neck. What? We quickly determine that we are looking at different animals that are within feet of each other in the tall grass. Neither of us can see the others choice.
We sorted it out quickly enough and I get my shot off on the chosen animal when I moved to the PH's position.
That tree saved OUR bacon and provided an opportunity to reset and continue. Otherwise, ground shrinkage....(It was only an inch) I would have sucked this one up and then a new plan would have been made.

Mistakes are made all the time.
I am always happy to see a PH and Outfitter fixing the problem.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Your fortunate that you were on a game farm where you were legally able to take a second animal.

If you were hunting in another country and had the one permit, it would have been a different ending.
That is where the quality of the PH really comes into play, of course you have to do your part.

Follow your PHs instructions, but if it just doesn’t feel right remove your finger from the trigger and if possible tell your PH your concern, but do not be upset if you do not have another opportunity.

Lon

Lon

 

[bakerb]

Mistakes happen. How it’s handled is important.

On my very first safari I really wanted a black wildebeest. We got into a herd and the PH picked out the “bull” and I shot. And I shot badly. Somehow in the follow up, either I shot the wrong one or we just miscommunicated. Either way. I shot the wrong one.

Dust settled and the first was a huge cow. And the second was a cow too. Obviously the first animal was just a mistake by the PH. The second was either my fault, or both, I’m still not sure

We had chances at bulls later, but I had two already, so I didn’t shoot.

I get the final bill and the owner didn’t charge me anything for the black wildebeest. I asked and he said he wasn’t going to charge me as they were cows. I didn’t think that was fair, so I offered to pay for the price for one bull. He was happy I think. I was happy. I hope it was a fair way to resolve it.

I have those two black wildebeest skulls in my office and no one even knows what they are, let alone that they were cows.

And I would hunt with that owner and that PH again any day