Who was at fault, me or the PH?

[ActionBob]

The mistake was all on the PH. Thankfully both the PH and owner took responsibility.

We are constantly told to listen to our PH! Sounds like that is exactly what @Speedster did. Although I am still unclear if he actually shot another or not? @Speedster did you take them up on the offer and shoot a better Gemsbok?

When Gina 's dad was hunting his buffalo he asked the PH if he should bring his binos to which the PH said no. Then told him he wanted him on the gun lining up the shot when told to do so and to not get distracted by looking at horns or anything else that is the responsibility of the PH. Now this was a first and likely only buffalo for a guy who struggles to walk, especially through brush and over rocks. He got a fantastic buffalo!

Another situation had happened with another hunter just before we arrived. Basically the compete opposite of what the OP experienced. They had been struggling finding a good kudu on a property the PH had not hunted before. Every bull they saw had his horns up in thick trees so there was no good way to judge length. Then the PH spotted a bull that had huge bases and the PH just knew it was a really good one even though he could not see much of the horns. He told the hunter to shoot. The hunter hesitated because he could not see the horns. I believe the conversation was something along the lines of "shoot itvor give me the gun and I'll take it!"

The client ended up wounding it and they could find it after an exhaustive search. The hunt continued onto other properties and species.

Then right at the end of the hunt they got a call that the farm staff found the kudu bull dead and the PH had best come over. I believe the hunter was still in camp so they drove over. That kudu went 70 inches!!!

The cape was gone but they got the skull and horns. In fact it was in the salt shed yet.

 

[Mekaniks]

Mistakes happen. How it’s handled is important.

On my very first safari I really wanted a black wildebeest. We got into a herd and the PH picked out the “bull” and I shot. And I shot badly. Somehow in the follow up, either I shot the wrong one or we just miscommunicated. Either way. I shot the wrong one.

Dust settled and the first was a huge cow. And the second was a cow too. Obviously the first animal was just a mistake by the PH. The second was either my fault, or both, I’m still not sure

We had chances at bulls later, but I had two already, so I didn’t shoot.

I get the final bill and the owner didn’t charge me anything for the black wildebeest. I asked and he said he wasn’t going to charge me as they were cows. I didn’t think that was fair, so I offered to pay for the price for one bull. He was happy I think. I was happy. I hope it was a fair way to resolve it.

I have those two black wildebeest skulls in my office and no one even knows what they are, let alone that they were cows.

And I would hunt with that owner and that PH again any day

This is an excellent example how things can happen and how they should be sorted.....

 

[Ridge Runner]

A 70 inch Kudu! WOW! That's Awesome.

 

[sniper7]

Sounds like it worked out well. PH made the mistake or wanted it culled and made a quick call. Luckily you were in an area to shoot another one. Some countries you would be mostly stuck with it.

I’ve culled a lot of animals and only questioned my PH once very early on as I wasn’t sure what exactly was happening. Then I understood if he said shoot then I shoot. We have had great communication and I trust him. Been twice with that PH and take his advice on other African hunts I’ve been on as well. He has set me up on a ton of trophies, he sees things I don’t. There is a huge difference in seeing 10/15/20 different plains game species vs hunting whitetail or elk and you are after one specific species. Or even judging elephant or buffalo with little to no experience.

There is something great to be said about trusting your PH, not only on calling the shots or the animal but also potentially with your life.

I look at any new PH/concession/outfitter/etc as an interview before I book a trip. I want to talk with the PH who I will be hunting with, if I don’t have a great first impression of someone I might spend 5/7/10/14 days with hours on end I’m not going.

 

[luger6]

On my first trip to RSA in 2012, I was completely ripped off. One of four animals was a trophy and it was a blesbok that I saw before my female PH. It appeard from behind a bush and it was a quick shot at 30m. I also allowed myself to be tempted to shoot a Kudo that I only saw the horns of in the vegetation. "Shoot, shoot, shoot through the bush where you think the neck is" the PH whispered several times. There were a few drops of blood and we went after it for three days without getting at it. Of course, I had to pay for it, which was perfectly fine, but they didn't say anything at the farm, but I found out when I got home via my tour operator. When I had shot my Gemsbok I asked why it had no grooves on the horns and was told that ones with grooves were rare in the Northern Cape. They must have really enjoyed having me as a guest! When I was in Namibia in 2017, I showed pictures of my "trophy animals" to the owner of the farm. He got very upset and wanted the prankster's name and phone number, which I had to pretend I had forgotten. 2019 back in RSA I paid to shoot two good Kudos, a Greater and an Estern. If I remember correctly the Greater was 53 inches and the Estern 46 inches. I left both horns. I believe it is PHn's job to ensure that hunters who come as guests can shoot safe shots at the right animals and it is up to the hunter to explain his expectations before the hunt.
My trophy Gemsbok.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

To err is human. Even an African white hunter or a first time client. What matters is how the mistake was rectified.

 

[Sarg]

Hey stuff happens.
Gemsbok for me also. We eased into a group. I'm on sticks. PH says second from right. I shoot and it drops on spot. He says looks like a hit keep track on it. That's when I come off gun and say "it dropped.
I was on wrong animal. There were five I only saw four. It was still a good animal but not the 45+ inch one I was supposed to have shot.
Things happen. All I can say. I was happy and paid for it and did take the bigger one also two days later.

Wow you shot a 45in Gemsbok that’s a nice big bugger ?

It would be the PHs fault, that’s the job .

I’d be very suspicious of the 70in Kudu found later, more so if on a pay by the inch property ?

 

[Dewald]

On my first trip to RSA in 2012, I was completely ripped off. One of four animals was a trophy and it was a blesbok that I saw before my female PH. It appeard from behind a bush and it was a quick shot at 30m. I also allowed myself to be tempted to shoot a Kudo that I only saw the horns of in the vegetation. "Shoot, shoot, shoot through the bush where you think the neck is" the PH whispered several times. There were a few drops of blood and we went after it for three days without getting at it. Of course, I had to pay for it, which was perfectly fine, but they didn't say anything at the farm, but I found out when I got home via my tour operator. When I had shot my Gemsbok I asked why it had no grooves on the horns and was told that ones with grooves were rare in the Northern Cape. They must have really enjoyed having me as a guest! When I was in Namibia in 2017, I showed pictures of my "trophy animals" to the owner of the farm. He got very upset and wanted the prankster's name and phone number, which I had to pretend I had forgotten. 2019 back in RSA I paid to shoot two good Kudos, a Greater and an Estern. If I remember correctly the Greater was 53 inches and the Estern 46 inches. I left both horns. I believe it is PHn's job to ensure that hunters who come as guests can shoot safe shots at the right animals and it is up to the hunter to explain his expectations before the hunt.
My trophy Gemsbok.
View attachment 626097

How do you mean you left both horns?

Sorry about that gemsbuck. No one should pay for that animal.

 

[Philip Glass]

.In another thread that has garnered a lot of interest and replies, a person post about his bad experience with his PH and he was unhappy with an animal he shot that the PH told him to. I did not want to hijack the thread but I had a somewhat similar experience several years ago on my first trip to Africa and in hindsight I have wondered if I was at fault.
Here is what happened:'

We spotted a group of gemsbok about a half mile ahead and not wanting to spook them, jumped off the safari truck to begin a stalk. It was getting towards evening and the sun was getting low and straight in front of us so there was a considerable amount of glare as the sun was still above the treetops. It was a pretty dense area which allowed us to catch up to the gemsbok using the dense foliage as cover.

We finally got close and set up for a shot but the sun glare was so severe I had trouble seeing anything through the scope. We swung around to the right to get a better angle. We got a stroke of luck as we found a very small opening in the bush and the gemsbok started walking through it in single file. That gave me a chance for a shot. The PH said he would tell me when he saw one to shoot. I set up and was concentrating on the spot at which I could take the shot and finally the PH saw one walk through and said to shoot, which I did. It was a good shot and we found the gemsbok after a very short tracking.

When I walked up to it, my heart sank. One of the horns was bent back and splintered in 3 or 4 pieces. It was also very short. THE PH said that I did not have to pay for it and could hunt anther one since the damaged horn was less than 24 inches. That was fine but if I would have had to pay for that animal I would not have been happy. The PH even admitted to me he saw that the gemsbok's horn was damaged. As a newbie I did not say anything but in hindsight it rankled me.

So a couple things I have thought about and I am not sure If it was my fault or the PH's.
1. The owner said I could shoot another since one horn was less than 24 inches and their policy was a horn had to be at least that length. He never mentioned that the damaged horn made any difference and it appeared it was all about the length. I did not agree but said nothing. It made me feel that it was my responsibility to determine if an animal has a horn that is damaged (or just plain ugly) and I don't know why the PH did not tell me he saw that the horn was damaged.
2. I was naively relying on the PH to tell me when to shoot and because of the lighting conditions, was really concentrating on the spot rather than looking at the animal's horns. Also, since the animal was walking I had to make a snap shot before it disappeared. Was this my responsibility also?

I am not looking for any type of vindication. Just wondering from others if maybe it was on me. I have thought about the issue many times in the past and after reading the other post with a similar problem it made me wonder if I should have talked to the owner about what I felt or since I got the oppotunity to shoot another animal just keep my mouth shut and drop it.

If you were hunting a trophy the PH should not have let you shoot a 24” Gemsbuck. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[uplander01]

Sounds like he wanted to cull that one out, offered a fix, no biggy. I personally, after a bad experience with a waterbuck, won’t shoot unless I know exactly what I’m shooting at, and feel comfortable with a clear shot.

 

[ActionBob]

Wow you shot a 45in Gemsbok that’s a nice big bugger ?

It would be the PHs fault, that’s the job .

I’d be very suspicious of the 70in Kudu found later, more so if on a pay by the inch property ?

You are just flat out wrong on the kudu. No one knew that kudu was there. If they had they would have not shot it but rather capture and sell as a breeder for big money. I'm pretty sure it was a first time client on a budget so they took him to a place with low cost kudu.

They were a bit disgruntled with the client as he was not even excited about it. Sounds like he didn't realize what he had. They wanted to get him a full cape but he was going to just do a European mount. I believe they are least talked him into doing a shoulder mount.

Obviously the outfitter would have liked someone to have taken it who would put it in the record books.....

 

[Andrew62]

I agree completely with Flipper Dude. In all my safaris Just me I always listen to my PH. Just me it is not my job nor do I have the expertise to score an animal. As soon as I meet my PH before the hunt we discuss what a representative animal will be. Therefore the PH knows what I am looking for and has never ever disappointed me! As with all things good communication BEFORE a possible shooting situation solves almost everything.

Like @Rare Breed , when I get to camp I have a general discussion about what it is I am looking for, this eliminates having a discussion while staring at a herd, making a rushed decision. Furthermore, after all the times I've been to Africa, at 200 yards, I still do not have the expertise to know if a gemsbok is a male or female, that's why I pay a guide. To to OP, it definitely was not your fault in any way, your guide said 'shoot', so you shot, you did as you were told to do.

 

[BRICKBURN]

........ the client as he was not even excited about it. .....

That is enough to make me ill. How many would give their eye teeth to hunt that incredible trophy.

 

[BRICKBURN]

. Furthermore, after all the times I've been to Africa, at 200 yards, I still do not have the expertise to know if a gemsbok is a male or female, that's why I pay a guide. .......

It is really tough and that is why we do pay the PH's


You have to look for the "piel." Dead give away.

One of these things is not like the others.

 

[luger6]

How do you mean you left both horns?

Sorry about that gemsbuck. No one should pay for that animal.

Left them at the farm, did not take them home with my other trophys.

 

[375Fox]

Left them at the farm, did not take them home with my other trophys.

What’s wrong with a 53” kudu and a 46” east cape kudu? They are both very good trophies.

 

[375Fox]

I tell my PH what I am looking for at start of hunt and trust them after that. I don’t look at the horns to judge the trophy. I wouldn’t be happy with a 24” gemsbok or one with a significant horn or a cow. If you had a discussion with the PH prior to hunt and shot the one he told you it’s on him. If you didn’t and he considers 24” a trophy it’s on you. I’m glad he made it right in the end.

 

[ActionBob]

What’s wrong with a 53” kudu and a 46” east cape kudu? They are both very good trophies.

Yes they are! I've got a 51" and a 48". I know they are the same species, but amoungst the East Cape varient to me the 48" is actually the better trophy! Especially when looking at the size of the horns in comparison to the size of the body.

I recently passed on a 55" but only because we were hunting buffalo and did not want to spook them... If it had been 60", I'd have forgotten about buffalo pretty quickly

 

[Dewald]

Left them at the farm, did not take them home with my other trophys.

@luger6, if I may ask why?

I’m not trying to be critical here, purely trying to understand. For example if you were made to believe the 53” bull was 56” or the Eastern Cape bull was over 50” and you were disappointed.

As a South African hunter that lives in an area where we are fortunate to have affordable kudu with very good genetics, I typically try to hunt mature animals with various shapes of horns, in other words, narrow, wide, deep curls, shallow etc, not bothering to much about the inches.

I do realise it is different for travelling sports hunters, and I always discuss that with a hunter beforehand, ie if he wants age, inches, symmetry, will he be interested in a malformed or broken horn and so forth.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

It is really tough and that is why we do pay the PH's


You have to look for the "piel." Dead give away.

One of these things is not like the others.
View attachment 626154View attachment 626152View attachment 626153

Cow in top photo. Other two are bulls.

I am curious. No rings = immature?

I shot a cow on my first safari. She had escaped onto wrong property the year before. May as well take her as she won't be making any babies there and range was suffering from seven year drought. Turned out to be quite an exciting hunt. Had to shoot in self defense. PH told me she was a very old cow and probably past bearing age anyway. This was based on the compressed rings at base of her horns. Was that a correct assessment?

Actually, it was my idea to take this cow. We came to the property to hunt springbuck. Finished and were just leaving on the way home when PH mentioned a rogue gemsbuck that they'd been trying to harvest. "But you're probably not interested. It's just a cow." Well, they have nice horns and we're already here. Let's go have a look. So we turned around. Gemsbuck was part of the package. Worked for me.