Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

[Silvine]

Some people will always despise what is new because it is cool to hate what is new. That said, the 6.5 CM has been around long enough for anybody whom wants to give it a chance to have a go at it. My favorite rifles are chambered in 6.5 CM and 6.5x55. I’m extremely satisfied with the way those rifles have performed. I’m also happy with my 308s, 257 WMs, 300 WMs, 6.8 SPCs, 30-06s and well, you get the picture. Heck, I’ve even come to love my little 30” BLK and I was an avowed 300 BLK hater for a loooooooong time.

No cartridge is perfect, but many are great for multiple uses. The 6.5 CM falls into that category. It does a lot of things extremely well. It’s not at the top of my list for a grizzly cartridge, but it kills the absolute crap out of pigs and deer and that’s about all I hunt.

 

[Inline6]

For me, it's about 400 yards with a 7 RM, if the game animal is dead still and not going anywhere. I can punch holes in paper further than that, but I won't shoot at live animal further out. Most new shooters shouldn't even do that.
One time I shot a mule deer buck at about 100 yards with a muzzle loader. He was standing still, but started forward just as the trigger broke. With the long lock time and slow bullet speed, it caught him through the right ham, and out through the guts. It was a long tracking job but I did find and finish him. I have been very conscious of lock times and game movement since then.

Anyone that has hunted for any length of time has a shot they wish they could redo. Nothing is a given, sometimes it takes a lesson to become more humble about the situation. Most hunts I know feel bad if the screw up a shot and wound an animal. The few people that don't care, well it doesn't take me long to distance myself from them.

Another perspective, the new guy with the 6.5CM at the range shooting every other weekend. Is probably going to do better than the average guy that only checks the scope on his rifle once a year and might shoot a box of ammo over the course of several years.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

All of which is true, and I am not one of the 6.5 haters. I'm planning on buying one Gor my grandson. That does not mean that I don't understand where the negativity is coming from. There was a story on here not long ago about a young man that shot an elk with a 6.5 cm at 1100 yards. He hit it in a back leg, the guts and eventually in the neck. Where do you think he got the idea that a 6.5 with a dial up scope was something that should be done at that range?

 

[SFRanger7GP]

18 pages of entertainment! Real rifle loonies, warriors and other professional's skills are only enhanced by better kit and technology. Gunny Hathcock was a quiet professional with great skills that would have been just as effective with any weapon system, be it a Savage, a push feed rifle, a Blaser, a 243, or yes, even a 6.5 CM. It is the man (or woman), not the kit or weapon system.

It only takes 5 minutes and a bit of coin to dress like a pro. Unfortunately, the 6.5 CM is currently one of the preferred rifle platforms for the "5-minute pro". My guess is that is where the hatred comes from.

The 6.5 CM is a fine cartridge when deployed within its capabilities by a competent marksman. It could be considered the "iPhone of rifles" for the new generation of shooters.

I have no hatred for it. However, I am much too manly to own one.

Safe shooting

 

[Inline6]

All of which is true, and I am not one of the 6.5 haters. I'm planning on buying one Gor my grandson. That does not mean that I don't understand where the negativity is coming from. There was a story on here not long ago about a young man that shot an elk with a 6.5 cm at 1100 yards. He hit it in a back leg, the guts and eventually in the neck. Where do you think he got the idea that a 6.5 with a dial up scope was something that should be done at that range?

Well first let's talk through it a little. 1 it was a 6.5PRC. 2 he was a kid amongst adults that should have known better. That has nothing to do with the cartridge and everything to do with personal responsibility. 3 the same outcome would have happen if it were a 338LM. It is up to the shooter to know the limitations of not only his equipment and themselves. The adults should have known better, they should not have let him take the shot. The good thing was, they made a correction fast and put the elk down.

I have seen people mess up 50 yard shots, some people need a lot more practice.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well first let's talk through it a little. 1 it was a 6.5PRC. 2 he was a kid amongst adults that should have known better. That has nothing to do with the cartridge and everything to do with personal responsibility. 3 the same outcome would have happen if it were a 338LM. It is up to the shooter to know the limitations of not only his equipment and themselves. The adults should have known better, they should not have let him take the shot. The good thing was, they made a correction fast and put the elk down.

I have seen people mess up 50 yard shots, some people need a lot more practice.

"Some people need a lot more practice". I think a LOT of people need more practice shooting AWAY FROM the bench just to make a good 100yd. shot on game in the field? Before hunting season here, I almost never see anyone shooting at my range from a sitting or standing position using a sling for support. It's all from the bench. Last September, I was at the 25yd. line sighting in and adjusting the scope on my new .25-06 before moving to the 100yd. line. A guy a few benches away was sighting in his, his son's and grandson's rifles for their upcoming elk hunt. When I told him I was moving to the 100yd. range, he stated, "Oh, you're going to shoot at long distance now?". I said it's not really long distance and I'm going to shoot standing and sitting using my sling and make further corrections on my scope. He told me he had no intention of shooting at 100yds., as he just wanted to make sure his rifles' scopes printed good at 25 which would then be the same at 100. Wow! Maybe an extreme example, but how many other hunters are thinking like this guy and then regardless of cartridge, are shooting at game well beyond their capabilities of having practiced for?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Well first let's talk through it a little. 1 it was a 6.5PRC. 2 he was a kid amongst adults that should have known better. That has nothing to do with the cartridge and everything to do with personal responsibility. 3 the same outcome would have happen if it were a 338LM. It is up to the shooter to know the limitations of not only his equipment and themselves. The adults should have known better, they should not have let him take the shot. The good thing was, they made a correction fast and put the elk down.

I have seen people mess up 50 yard shots, some people need a lot more practice.

All true, but the hype is why these people think they are able to shoot an elk at over 1000 yards. It is not the actual cartridge that is the issue. It's kind of like when the .243 came out and was touted as the perfect cartridge for everything from prairie dogs to elk. It might work on the larger animals at reasonable ranges, with perfect shot placement but experienced hunters are unlikely to use it on anything bigger than smallish deer. Hype helps sell things, but can also lead to negative feelings.

BTW, you're right it was a 6.5 PRC. I was going off memory, but it doesn't really change much. 1100 yards is always going to be too far to shoot at an in wounded animal with any cartridge.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

All true, but the hype is why these people think they are able to shoot an elk at over 1000 yards. It is not the actual cartridge that is the issue. It's kind of like when the .243 came out and was touted as the perfect cartridge for everything from prairie dogs to elk. It might work on the larger animals at reasonable ranges, with perfect shot placement but experienced hunters are unlikely to use it on anything bigger than smallish deer. Hype helps sell things, but can also lead to negative feelings.

BTW, you're right it was a 6.5 PRC. I was going off memory, but it doesn't really change much. 1100 yards is always going to be too far to shoot at an in wounded animal with any cartridge.

It will be for me!

 

[WAB]

Well first let's talk through it a little. 1 it was a 6.5PRC. 2 he was a kid amongst adults that should have known better. That has nothing to do with the cartridge and everything to do with personal responsibility. 3 the same outcome would have happen if it were a 338LM. It is up to the shooter to know the limitations of not only his equipment and themselves. The adults should have known better, they should not have let him take the shot. The good thing was, they made a correction fast and put the elk down.

I have seen people mess up 50 yard shots, some people need a lot more practice.

Exactly, the 6.5 PRC is closer to a .264 WM than a 6.5 CM. Blaming the cartridge for this type of behavior seems odd. I like my 6.5 PRC but I’m sure not shooting at elk at 1000+ yards with it! It seems to be the perfect caliber for what I bought it for, Coues deer. This is tough shooting in desert conditions where you may have to stretch the range a bit. If a conventional rig with the appropriate zero is a reasonable 400 yard rifle, the rig I’ve built may be capable 150 to 200 yards beyond that in my hands under good conditions. It carries plenty of energy at that range, the real wild card is wind. Reading wind across those canyons is tough. You may have 10pm where you sit and 20 mph out in the canyon. That’s a big difference at five or six hundred yards on a small deer.

 

[Inline6]

Exactly, the 6.5 PRC is closer to a .264 WM than a 6.5 CM. Blaming the cartridge for this type of behavior seems odd. I like my 6.5 PRC but I’m sure not shooting at elk at 1000+ yards with it! It seems to be the perfect caliber for what I bought it for, Coues deer. This is tough shooting in desert conditions where you may have to stretch the range a bit. If a conventional rig with the appropriate zero is a reasonable 400 yard rifle, the rig I’ve built may be capable 150 to 200 yards beyond that in my hands under good conditions. It carries plenty of energy at that range, the real wild card is wind. Reading wind across those canyons is tough. You may have 10pm where you sit and 20 mph out in the canyon. That’s a big difference at five or six hundred yards on a small deer.

It is a great round for that!

The Trijicon Ventus is going to be the real game changer. It is going to be that much better in several years when gen 2 and 3 come out.

 

[perttime]

Let's say a .308 Win would do what I want a rifle to do - but a 6.5 CM might do it a little better when I go beyond 100 meters. And (for whatever reason) I cannot, or don't want to, get both. Is this a tough choice?

 

[JGRaider]

All of which is true, and I am not one of the 6.5 haters. I'm planning on buying one Gor my grandson. That does not mean that I don't understand where the negativity is coming from. There was a story on here not long ago about a young man that shot an elk with a 6.5 cm at 1100 yards. He hit it in a back leg, the guts and eventually in the neck. Where do you think he got the idea that a 6.5 with a dial up scope was something that should be done at that range?

So let me make sure I understand......It's the fault of the product being used instead of our own ignorance on what it was designed to do and how to use it? That makes absolutely no sense to me. I guess in this day of no personal responsibility/accountability I shouldn't be surprised.

Suppose I take the most durable rifle scope in the world, a Nightforce ATACR, on a dangerous game hunt, and it's set on 25x. A buffalo charges out of the brush at 20 yards and gores the PH because I couldn't see the target due to it being set on 25x, it's the scope's fault?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

So let me make sure I understand......It's the fault of the product being used instead of our own ignorance on what it was designed to do and how to use it? That makes absolutely no sense to me. I guess in this day of no personal responsibility/accountability I shouldn't be surprised.

Suppose I take the most durable rifle scope in the world, a Nightforce ATACR, on a dangerous game hunt, and it's set on 25x. A buffalo charges out of the brush at 20 yards and gores the PH because I couldn't see the target due to it being set on 25x, it's the scope's fault?

No. You missed the point. It is not the fault of the cartridge. It is the fault of those that have bought into the hype around the cartridge. I thought that I made that clear. Those that push the the idea that that shooting ANY cartridge at game at the ranges now being thought of as reasonable are not helping. The 6.5's just happen to be the ones that are receiving the press now. Some people, especially new shooters, are buying into it, and that breeds contempt from experienced hunters. Just because you can bang a steel plate off a bench at 1000 yards, does not mean that you should ever try that shot at an unwounded big game animal at that distance. The long range hunting shows on television which always seem to feature a 6.5 something, Berger bullets and "the thousand yard club" are all part of the problem.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

18 pages & growing!!!!!
Wow must be something about the Creedmoor to generate this much discussion????

 

[CoElkHunter]

18 pages & growing!!!!!
Wow must be something about the Creedmoor to generate this much discussion????

Wait till Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen necks it up to create the .35 Creedmoor! It'll be 180 pages! Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[Forrest Halley]

Wait till Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen necks it up to create the .35 Creedmoor! It'll be 180 pages! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I'm sure it has already been done. Probably called the .35 Billabong Bundy Bumchum or some such. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[Hogpatrol]

.35 Bleedmoor aka "The 35 Keelmoor".

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm sure it has already been done. Probably called the .35 Billabong Bundy Bumchum or some such. Nothing new under the sun.

Yeah, Bob is still working on his .35BNE (Banzai Nelson Express) wildcat and trying to find more 7.7 Jap brass to neck up and finding someone to make a set of dies. So, he needs to focus on that one first before venturing into the Creedmoor abyss. LOL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wait till Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen necks it up to create the .35 Creedmoor! It'll be 180 pages! Ha! Ha! Ha!

@CoElkHunter
Someone has probably already done it mate I know it has been necked up to 338. A bit like the 358 WSSM, not a bad idea but doesn't do anything another round won't do.
The good Colonel's invention is fine. No use trying to improve on perfection. A bit like trying to improve me, no use I'm fine just how I is.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm sure it has already been done. Probably called the .35 Billabong Bundy Bumchum or some such. Nothing new under the sun.

@ Forrest Halley
Ifn it was done in vagina whoops I meant Virginia it would be called the broke back mountain pacifier.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Bob