Why are Weatherby guns in 375+ calibers not liked on a Safari?

[IvW]

The activities were noted. If you want to expand the list to include pushing through Jungle, be my guest, but I suggest you carry it rather than drag it. And you might want to remove your jack and compare it to a 378 Wby, the purpose of the post.

What jack are you referring to?

 

[Ray B]

Not to end a sentence with a preposition, but you have your choice of two:
1. High-jacking the original post regarding the opinion of several regarding the 378 Wby, or
2. High-jacking my question regarding comparison of the 375 RUM to the 378 Wby, given specialties of the particular rifle which were enumerated as (a) open country and (b) target range.

 

[IvW]

Not to end a sentence with a preposition, but you have your choice of two:
1. High-jacking the original post regarding the opinion of several regarding the 378 Wby, or
2. High-jacking my question regarding comparison of the 375 RUM to the 378 Wby, given specialties of the particular rifle which were enumerated as (a) open country and (b) target range.

How you come to these conclusions are a bit baffling to me. High-jacking a thread means going way off point from the original question which is "Why are Weatherby guns in 375+ calibers not liked on a Safari?"

I have commented on why they are not liked in Africa by PH's and especially for DG hunting. I also commented on your comparison as it not related to 375 Wby and nobody, that I can think of anyway, would take a 11 pound rifle with a 28 inch barrel for DG hunting to Africa. Nobody asked about open country Elk hunting or long range target shooting. I fail to se how my comment High-jacked your comparison-I commented that that was a bad idea for a rifle to take to Africa.

You mentioned that you have not shot a 378 Weatherby only your 375 RUM, I can assure you the 378 Weatherby has brutal recoil. Very uncomfortable to shoot.

No high-jacking intended, but I can assure you, a 378 Weatherby or a 460 Weatherby with full power loads is a bad idea for Africa. If it weighs more than 11 pound and has a 28 inch barrel it is a worse idea.

Below is a quick comparison by Chuck.

The .375 Remington Ultra Mag (RUM) is based on a blown-out .404 Jeffery case slightly shortened to the same 2.850" case length as the .375 H&H Magnum. The maximum cartridge overall length (COL) is also the same as the .375 H&H, at 3.60". This non-belted, rebated rim case is fatter than the .375 H&H case and therefore can hold more powder. The result is a 300 grain bullet at a claimed MV of 2760 fps from a 24" barrel. The future of the .375 RUM is currently in doubt, as Remington has not chambered rifles for the cartridge in several years.

The .378 Weatherby Magnum, despite its odd nomenclature, uses standard .375" bullets. It is based on a necked-down, blown-out, belted version of the giant .416 Rigby elephant rifle case. Jack O'Connor, the Dean of American gun writers, showed Roy Weatherby a .416 Rigby cartridge and the rest is history. (O'Connor had been developing reloads using US canister powders for his Brevex Mauser action based .416 Rigby rifle.)

The .378 Wby. case can hold a maximum load of 112.0 grains of IMR 7828 powder, enough for reloaders to drive a 300 grain bullet at a MV of 2900 fps. The Weatherby factory load drives a 300 grain bullet at 2925 fps and 5699 ft. lbs. Not surprisingly, the .378 Wby. Mag. is known as one of the world's hardest kicking cartridges.

 

[Velo Dog]

Good morning,

Elsewhere in the World's Best Forum and a good while back, I had posted the following but, I recon it's worth repeating here, because:
A. It's true
and
B. I'm a smartass who only opens his mouth to change feet.

During the early 1970's, there was an old Gunsmith in Chico California, named Ray Spiegel (Speigle?)
I bought sold and traded firearms with him often enough that, he often would discuss with me (only just barely out of high school), various firearms related topics that were on his mind.
One day, the topic of Weatherby rifles and cartridges came up.
He told me that he had "smoked" the 9 locking lugs on a fair number of Weatherby MK V rifle bolts (by holding same over a candle to coat them with waxy smoke film).
Then, upon cycling each bolt through it's respective rifle a few times, he could then remove the bolt to check where contact was or was not in play.
Old Ray told me that of the Weatherby 9, essentially tiny lugs / interrupted screw thread design, the most he'd ever seen in any of these rifles that, actually touched anything was 3.

However, this according to him was plenty strong enough, because the MKV action and bolt steel was of appropriately very high strength and in the unlikely event 1, 2 or all 3 sheared off, undoubtedly, the other six "in reserve"-LOL, would then stop the bolt from smashing into the shooter's face.
Hopefully, with today's more precise technology, resulting in closer tolerance metal work among the mass produced firearms lately, most if not all of the 9 lugs are presumably engaging in the MKV bolt design these days.
Either way, the good news is that one never hears of a Weatherby bolt shearing off the lugs.

At any rate, the only Weatherby rifle I have fired was during my sordid youth, when a high school friend's older brother brought home from Japan, a brand new MKV .300 Weatherby.
I know that some folks say the shape of the stock, especially the sloping cheek piece or cheek rest, facilitates the rifle recoiling such that it does not bruise the shooter's face.
I fired one round from sand bags with that rifle and it felt like some one hit me in the face with a piece of lumber.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[BigKnuckle]

^^^^ PaulT--- The PH is not ignorant.
What you say about a rifle being a platform is true. The trouble comes from when you have someone in high heels and a mini skirt trying to do lumberjack work. This is the trouble with too many Weatherby owners.
They are not the SCI hall of famers that cause the bad rap on the Weatherby. They are the lumberjacks(so to speak) that understand the rifle/cartridge, pick the proper cartridge for the game and location, AND pick a proper bullet for the situation.
The trouble comes from the money made, want-to-be hunters that have to have the pretty and fancy(expensive) rifle(and usually the scope) to try and impress everyone else. They do not shoot well(even with a lesser cartridge), do not understand hunting, EXPECT the record book animal and such. This can put the PH life's in risk at worse or just cause a lot of tracking troubles, wounded animals and such. Not to mention they complain about this or that concerning the operation or staff or PH----which is unjustified.

So you are correct in the "appropriate projectiles"(just a fancy way to say bullets) and "generous velocities" being "placed correctly by a HUNTER who is competent" "are devastatingly effective".
The same can be said about a firearm that is not a Weatherby and at less than "generous velocities". They can and are also "effective". Example---I like my 257W and my 25-06 but my daughter has killed quite a number of animals in Africa and the USA with her 257Roberts(a mild cartridge) and ALL have been one shot kills with no tracking. Proper bullets (projectiles to those wanting to impress), suited to the game with proper placement does the trick. She has taken African game at 135 to 410 yards. Just as well as my Weatherby that I DO know how to use.
The trouble is too many of the Weatherby owners do not fall into the HUNTER group. Those you pointed out are HUNTERS. It is the others that hurt the name and can put the PH into a bad spot. They also look stupid to real hunters be it in Africa or the deer woods in the USA. I have seen my share of them. I avoid them once they prove to be that type.

I will say it is not the rifle/cartridge but the shooter, and their abilities/knowledge, that makes a difference between a hunter and a want-to-be-here -to impress person. So while I disagree with part of your post I also agree with part of it. You cannot select a few people to make a general statement. You need to look at the total picture.

Posted by a Weatherby rifle/cartridge hunter----but also shoots/hunts with many other rifles/cartridges

I think Paul is correct. Everyone knows (or should know) that the shooter is the most important part of the whole process. For anyone to say that a 300WBY is any worse (or better for that matter) than a 300WIN based solely on the brand and the amount of money it costs is pretty ludicrous. But then again, I'm not envious of those who can afford Weatherbys, nor do I have any prejudice against those who hunt with a $300 Savage. Every hunter is different, every gun is different. I have a friend who hunts exclusively with a 300WBY, not because he cares about status or impressing anyone, but because the gun was given to him and its the only one he has.

 

[rookhawk]

I hate to see some of my favorite characters on AH getting feisty with each other for no good reason.

@IvW and @RayB , buy each other a bottle of bourbon. @Velo Dog will surely pour them properly and oversee administration of them if you ask!

No hijacks seen, none implied.

No one asked, but I still don't like weatherby rifles but I like the discussions anyway!

 

[Velo Dog]

I hate to see some of my favorite characters on AH getting feisty with each other for no good reason.

@IvW and @RayB , buy each other a bottle of bourbon. @Velo Dog will surely pour them properly and oversee administration of them if you ask!

No hijacks seen, none implied.

No one asked, but I still don't like weatherby rifles but I like the discussions anyway!

+1

 

[Ryan]

Add the 338 Lapua to the discussion. I have a friend who works Customs and knowing I'd done some hunting in Namibia he recently told me he'd filled out the 4457 for a guy going over with a 338 Lapua for plains game in RSA. He asked how it shot and the guy said he'd had hot barrel issues with groups and had only shot a box because the recoil. My friend knows how to shoot and when it's not the guns fault so his inner cringe had to be huge but he said he kept his comments to himself other than wishing the guy well. That's a PH's nightmare.

 

[BigKnuckle]

Anyone who can't handle the recoil of their gun, shouldn't be using that gun. I've taken many shots, both on the bench and at deer/elk with my .340WBY and I won't tell you that I like the recoil, but I find it to be manageable. Especially when shooting at an animal, with a little adrenaline, its barely noticeable. I'm probably a little larger man than many, but I've never had an issue with the recoil of my particular WBY rifle. I feel the recoil on my brother-in-law's 300 win mag is worse and more difficult for follow-up shots, but it is much lighter than mine.

 

[IvW]

I hate to see some of my favorite characters on AH getting feisty with each other for no good reason.

@IvW and @RayB , buy each other a bottle of bourbon. @Velo Dog will surely pour them properly and oversee administration of them if you ask!

No hijacks seen, none implied.

No one asked, but I still don't like weatherby rifles but I like the discussions anyway!

Can you make mine a single malt?

 

[rookhawk]

Can you make mine a single malt?

Single Malt Recipe: 1 part bourbon, 1 part formaldehyde for flavor

Make your own!

;-)

(And that's a proper thread hi-jack right here!)

 

[IvW]

Anyone who can't handle the recoil of their gun, shouldn't be using that gun. I've taken many shots, both on the bench and at deer/elk with my .340WBY and I won't tell you that I like the recoil, but I find it to be manageable. Especially when shooting at an animal, with a little adrenaline, its barely noticeable. I'm probably a little larger man than many, but I've never had an issue with the recoil of my particular WBY rifle. I feel the recoil on my brother-in-law's 300 win mag is worse and more difficult for follow-up shots, but it is much lighter than mine.

Well said and that is definitely true. Especially if you intend using that rifle in Africa.

Often you will find folks buying a new rifle for their African safari and I think this is a mistake as they end up not practicing enough with this rifle before they arrive and often issues with the rifle or scope arise while on safari. Some repairable some not.

A 340 Weatherby although potent, is not a 378 Weatherby or 460 Weatherby(375 calibre +). I have never seen a client who can handle either a 378 or 460 Weatherby with any form competence. The recoil is just too much.

 

[rookhawk]

@IvW and to pivot beyond just Weatherby, all of these really garish magnums that are stocked similarly to Weatherbys are built with bench rest / long range hunter stocks. Taking my bias out of the equation (Don't like them), its just not the right design for the job at hand. Dangerous game calibers for Africa should be built with low combs and excellent cheek weld so you can shoot free hand or off sticks in comfort and control. The average .338 Lapua is also really stocked as a long range shooting platform as well.

So it creates a systemic spiral of problems. 1.) Bought a gun for long pokes but you're not taking long pokes. 2.) Bought a gun that kicks too much, 3.) Gun kicks too much because its stocked to be shot prone for long pokes with high rings, 4.) You don't want to shoot the gun "properly" for Africa because the high ring / high comb arrangement makes it really hurt to shoot off sticks.

No body on this forum is designed to take recoil better than me. I'm 6'9" and over 300lbs. Nobody on this forum hates recoil more than me either. (irony here) I shoot 6.5s and 7mms to keep the recoil soft. One big gun I'm not afraid of at all is my English stocked mid-century .375HH. Because of how its stocked and scoped, it is a pleasure to shoot off sticks. The muzzle jump seems to take the recoil off my face and shoulder and it bites much, much less than a .300 Winmag off a rest at the range. (another unpleasant gun for me to shoot)

Gunfit is important. Stock style and ring height is important. Having the right tool for the job is important. I don't think the advantages of Weatherby et al get realized even 1% of the time in Africa because its just not used much in that unique application. (e.g. additional 20 yards of Maximum Point Blank Range)

 

[rookhawk]

Chuck Hawks covered my sentiments here nicely...the math doesn't make sense. If you're buying a weatherby for longer, flatter shooting, you're not getting much benefit for the cost in $$$s and pain.

He writes:

But there is a perceived need on the part of some hunters, no matter how unrealistic, for an even flatter shooting, longer range rifle and cartridge combination. Unfortunately, while there are a few cartridges that can extend that plus or minus 3" point blank range somewhat, it is surprising how little maximum point blank range (MPBR) can be gained without either holding over the target or allowing a mid-range rise which may result in over-shooting at intermediate distances.

A careful perusal of the ammunition manufacturers ballistics tables and the popular reloading manuals reveals that the best of the (at lease moderately well known) ultra-long range cartridges appear to be the .240 Weatherby Magnum (100 grain bullet at 3400 fps), .257 Weatherby Magnum (115-120 grain bullet at 3300-3400 fps), 6.5x68S (120 grain bullet at 3300 fps), .264 Winchester Magnum (120 grain bullet at 3300 fps), .270 Weatherby Magnum (130-140 grain bullets at 3300-3375 fps), 7mm Weatherby Magnum (140-150 grain bullets at 3300 fps), 7mm STW (140 grain bullet at 3325 fps), 7mm Ultra Magnum (140 grain bullet at 3425 fps), .300 WSM and .300 Winchester Magnum (150 grain bullets at 3300 fps), .300 Weatherby Magnum (165 grain bullet at 3350 fps), .300 Remington Ultra Magnum (165 grain bullet at 3350 fps), .30-378 Weatherby Magnum (180 grain bullet at 3450 fps), and 8mm Remington Magnum (150 grain bullet at 3400 fps). As you can see, all of these cartridges launch general purpose hunting weight bullets (for their respective calibers) at 3300-3450 fps.

If you check the Rifle Trajectory Table you will find that the typical trajectory of these ultra-long range magnum cartridges allows a scoped rifle to be zeroed to hit about 2.3" high at 100 yards. From a rifle so zeroed the bullet will hit approximately 3" high at 150 yards, 2.6" high at 200 yards, and about 3" low at 320-330 yards. By going to a big magnum cartridge, and suffering the added recoil, muzzle blast, and expense that entails we have only gained an average of about 20 yards (6.6%) in MPBR over the standard .270 Winchester.

The most over-the-top cartridges among these, using the lightest bullets in their caliber suitable for even the smallest big game animals, can gain a few more yards, but at the cost of their versatility for use on larger game. For instance, the .300 Ultra Magnum with a 150 grain bullet at a MV of 3450 fps has a maximum point blank range (MPBR) of 335 yards. The .257 Weatherby Magnum with a 100 grain bullet at a MV of 3600 fps has a MPBR of 337 yards. The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum with a 165 grain bullet has a MPBR of 342 yards. The .300 Weatherby Magnum with a 150 grain bullet at a MV of 3540 fps has a MPBR of 343 yards.

These are radical, over-bore cartridges shooting the lightest practical bullets, and they average a MPBR of 339.25 yards. This represents an average increase in MPBR of less than 15 yards (4.6%) over the same cartridges shooting heavier bullets of far greater all-around usefulness. By almost any standard that is a poor trade-off.

He closes with:

It is singularly amazing how relatively little practical hunting range is gained by using an ultra-long range rifle and cartridge (compared to a standard long range rifle and cartridge). To pick up (at best) 38 additional yards of maximum point blank range, a deer hunter has to move from a reasonably handy, medium weight, versatile rifle to a long, heavy, specialized rifle with a huge increase in recoil, muzzle blast, and expense!

 

[IvW]

@IvW and to pivot beyond just Weatherby, all of these really garish magnums that are stocked similarly to Weatherbys are built with bench rest / long range hunter stocks. Taking my bias out of the equation (Don't like them), its just not the right design for the job at hand. Dangerous game calibers for Africa should be built with low combs and excellent cheek weld so you can shoot free hand or off sticks in comfort and control. The average .338 Lapua is also really stocked as a long range shooting platform as well.

So it creates a systemic spiral of problems. 1.) Bought a gun for long pokes but you're not taking long pokes. 2.) Bought a gun that kicks too much, 3.) Gun kicks too much because its stocked to be shot prone for long pokes with high rings, 4.) You don't want to shoot the gun "properly" for Africa because the high ring / high comb arrangement makes it really hurt to shoot off sticks.

No body on this forum is designed to take recoil better than me. I'm 6'9" and over 300lbs. Nobody on this forum hates recoil more than me either. (irony here) I shoot 6.5s and 7mms to keep the recoil soft. One big gun I'm not afraid of at all is my English stocked mid-century .375HH. Because of how its stocked and scoped, it is a pleasure to shoot off sticks. The muzzle jump seems to take the recoil off my face and shoulder and it bites much, much less than a .300 Winmag off a rest at the range. (another unpleasant gun for me to shoot)

Gunfit is important. Stock style and ring height is important. Having the right tool for the job is important. I don't think the advantages of Weatherby et al get realized even 1% of the time in Africa because its just not used much in that unique application. (e.g. additional 20 yards of Maximum Point Blank Range)

So true. A rifle needs to fit you, and stock design is so important.

A good test is to close your eyes, lift the rifle up to your instinctive aiming position and then open your eyes. You should be on the sights otherwise it does not fit you properly.

 

[rookhawk]

Some more data, 375HH vs. 375Weatherby:

.375 H&H Mag. (300 Sp at 2550) .398 +2.8" +0.8" 3"@125 250mpbr
.375 Wby. Mag. (300 Sp at 2800) .398 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@125 273mpbr

23 yards more maximum point blank range with the Weatherby.

.375 H&H Mag. (300 at 2530) 9.0lb gun, 37.3 pounds of felt recoil

.375 Wby. Mag. (300 at 2700) 9.0lb gun, 52.56 pounds of felt recoil

So for 23 yards further shooting without a holdover (taking a 273 yard shot instead of a 250 yard shot with a .375), you get to go from 37.3 pounds of recoil to a smash your face 52.56 pounds of recoil. I assure you that the additional recoil, plus feeling that recoil in a weatherby stock with high rings and a high comb is brutality at its finest. Who wants this when there is no measurable pay out?

That's 10lbs more felt recoil than a .404 Jeffery! That's 11lbs more recoil than a 400gr load from a friggin' .458 Winchester weighing 9lbs! It's only 5.5lbs less recoil than shooting a 10lb .416 Rigby rifle with a 400gr bullet!!! Who comes up with this stuff?!

 

[larry4831]

How you come to these conclusions are a bit baffling to me. High-jacking a thread means going way off point from the original question which is "Why are Weatherby guns in 375+ calibers not liked on a Safari?"

I have commented on why they are not liked in Africa by PH's and especially for DG hunting. I also commented on your comparison as it not related to 375 Wby and nobody, that I can think of anyway, would take a 11 pound rifle with a 28 inch barrel for DG hunting to Africa. Nobody asked about open country Elk hunting or long range target shooting. I fail to se how my comment High-jacked your comparison-I commented that that was a bad idea for a rifle to take to Africa.

You mentioned that you have not shot a 378 Weatherby only your 375 RUM, I can assure you the 378 Weatherby has brutal recoil. Very uncomfortable to shoot.

No high-jacking intended, but I can assure you, a 378 Weatherby or a 460 Weatherby with full power loads is a bad idea for Africa. If it weighs more than 11 pound and has a 28 inch barrel it is a worse idea.

Below is a quick comparison by Chuck.

The .375 Remington Ultra Mag (RUM) is based on a blown-out .404 Jeffery case slightly shortened to the same 2.850" case length as the .375 H&H Magnum. The maximum cartridge overall length (COL) is also the same as the .375 H&H, at 3.60". This non-belted, rebated rim case is fatter than the .375 H&H case and therefore can hold more powder. The result is a 300 grain bullet at a claimed MV of 2760 fps from a 24" barrel. The future of the .375 RUM is currently in doubt, as Remington has not chambered rifles for the cartridge in several years.

The .378 Weatherby Magnum, despite its odd nomenclature, uses standard .375" bullets. It is based on a necked-down, blown-out, belted version of the giant .416 Rigby elephant rifle case. Jack O'Connor, the Dean of American gun writers, showed Roy Weatherby a .416 Rigby cartridge and the rest is history. (O'Connor had been developing reloads using US canister powders for his Brevex Mauser action based .416 Rigby rifle.)

The .378 Wby. case can hold a maximum load of 112.0 grains of IMR 7828 powder, enough for reloaders to drive a 300 grain bullet at a MV of 2900 fps. The Weatherby factory load drives a 300 grain bullet at 2925 fps and 5699 ft. lbs. Not surprisingly, the .378 Wby. Mag. is known as one of the world's hardest kicking cartridges.

I used to load mine with the 115 grains of H4831and the hornady 300 grain round nose. I would get my loads out of the old Weatherby guides, and they don't print those anymore but it was a pretty good pamphlet. But when you touched it off you better hang on!

 

[IvW]

Chuck Hawks covered my sentiments here nicely...the math doesn't make sense. If you're buying a weatherby for longer, flatter shooting, you're not getting much benefit for the cost in $$$s and pain.

He writes:

But there is a perceived need on the part of some hunters, no matter how unrealistic, for an even flatter shooting, longer range rifle and cartridge combination. Unfortunately, while there are a few cartridges that can extend that plus or minus 3" point blank range somewhat, it is surprising how little maximum point blank range (MPBR) can be gained without either holding over the target or allowing a mid-range rise which may result in over-shooting at intermediate distances.

A careful perusal of the ammunition manufacturers ballistics tables and the popular reloading manuals reveals that the best of the (at lease moderately well known) ultra-long range cartridges appear to be the .240 Weatherby Magnum (100 grain bullet at 3400 fps), .257 Weatherby Magnum (115-120 grain bullet at 3300-3400 fps), 6.5x68S (120 grain bullet at 3300 fps), .264 Winchester Magnum (120 grain bullet at 3300 fps), .270 Weatherby Magnum (130-140 grain bullets at 3300-3375 fps), 7mm Weatherby Magnum (140-150 grain bullets at 3300 fps), 7mm STW (140 grain bullet at 3325 fps), 7mm Ultra Magnum (140 grain bullet at 3425 fps), .300 WSM and .300 Winchester Magnum (150 grain bullets at 3300 fps), .300 Weatherby Magnum (165 grain bullet at 3350 fps), .300 Remington Ultra Magnum (165 grain bullet at 3350 fps), .30-378 Weatherby Magnum (180 grain bullet at 3450 fps), and 8mm Remington Magnum (150 grain bullet at 3400 fps). As you can see, all of these cartridges launch general purpose hunting weight bullets (for their respective calibers) at 3300-3450 fps.

If you check the Rifle Trajectory Table you will find that the typical trajectory of these ultra-long range magnum cartridges allows a scoped rifle to be zeroed to hit about 2.3" high at 100 yards. From a rifle so zeroed the bullet will hit approximately 3" high at 150 yards, 2.6" high at 200 yards, and about 3" low at 320-330 yards. By going to a big magnum cartridge, and suffering the added recoil, muzzle blast, and expense that entails we have only gained an average of about 20 yards (6.6%) in MPBR over the standard .270 Winchester.

The most over-the-top cartridges among these, using the lightest bullets in their caliber suitable for even the smallest big game animals, can gain a few more yards, but at the cost of their versatility for use on larger game. For instance, the .300 Ultra Magnum with a 150 grain bullet at a MV of 3450 fps has a maximum point blank range (MPBR) of 335 yards. The .257 Weatherby Magnum with a 100 grain bullet at a MV of 3600 fps has a MPBR of 337 yards. The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum with a 165 grain bullet has a MPBR of 342 yards. The .300 Weatherby Magnum with a 150 grain bullet at a MV of 3540 fps has a MPBR of 343 yards.

These are radical, over-bore cartridges shooting the lightest practical bullets, and they average a MPBR of 339.25 yards. This represents an average increase in MPBR of less than 15 yards (4.6%) over the same cartridges shooting heavier bullets of far greater all-around usefulness. By almost any standard that is a poor trade-off.

He closes with:

It is singularly amazing how relatively little practical hunting range is gained by using an ultra-long range rifle and cartridge (compared to a standard long range rifle and cartridge). To pick up (at best) 38 additional yards of maximum point blank range, a deer hunter has to move from a reasonably handy, medium weight, versatile rifle to a long, heavy, specialized rifle with a huge increase in recoil, muzzle blast, and expense!

Again this is so true.

I may be an old school type hunter and PH, but could never understand(can still not), "the all American need for speed" as I call it, that many hunters have and want to practice in Africa. I may be old fashioned but I am an advocate of heavy for caliber bullets in large bore rifles.

I well remember Hunting with a outfitter many years ago. His client had borrowed a 375 H & H as he was looking for a Eland. We were passing through a mountainous area and spotted a real nice Klipspringer. Outfitter encouraged client to take a shot and and told him where to hold. The client(good friend of the outfitter and had done many hunts with him before) said the shot was not possible with a 375 H & H. Long story short the client said he would pay if the outfitter could shoot the Klipspringer. Well, everytime I hunt there, I remember this when I look at the fullmount of this Klipspringer in the lodge.

Old saying: "Beware the man who uses only one rifle"

Best rifle to use is the one you shoot the best, this will most probably be the one that fits you best and that you enjoy hunting with the most and not some magnum that that is capable of incredible paper ballistics.

 

[IvW]

I used to load mine with the 115 grains of H4831and the hornady 300 grain round nose. I would get my loads out of the old Weatherby guides, and they don't print those anymore but it was a pretty good pamphlet. But when you touched it off you better hang on!

Bet you liked hunting with that beast! I see you are using the past tense, presuming you got rid of it or it may be gathering dust in the gun rack/safe.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello again IvW,

Once again, we are in agreement (great minds think alike - LOL)
Just like pretty much all Americans who get interested in rifles, reloading, hunting and such, I too suffered the common disease that virtually always infects us right away .. "Velocity Madness".
But I got over it.

I'm not saying that the hunter seeking rodents through coyote, on N. America's grasslands is better off with a .22 short caliber rifle than he is with a .220 Swift (certainly I would choose the Swift for these).
But for larger animals, I am convinced that, due to recoil (and the shiddy stock shape) a hunter can make hitting them more difficult than it needs to be, with such as the Weatherby line, as well as other so called "improved" cartridges, such as the Lazzeroni Company produces (perhaps no longer in business?), P.O. Ackley and others were known for.

Anyway, a general concept (not an absolute concept) for me personally is:
"Small fast animal, small fast bullet / large slow animal, large slow bullet".
Perhaps more accurately, I now am at the stage in my life where I will try my best to match a specific tool to a specific job.
I may end up using a very large bore, slow bullet on some small fast animal, in connection to earlier in the hunt having successfully hunted some large/heavy animal to begin with.
An example would be hypothetically, having taken a buffalo or hippo on land, perhaps elephant, etc., then using the same large bore / 2125 fps rifle for impala, warthog, etc.
However, for me personally the reverse is not so.
In other words, I would not hunt moose, elk, eland, zebra, etc., with a .243 for one example.

Anyway, blah, blah, blah, out,
Velo Dog.


At any distance we care to describe, if a hunter cannot hit some particular target with the original .375 H&H, I totally believe they will also miss it, with either of the same bore size Weatherby versions.
If it were me, shooting at some distant target with the H&H, plus the two Weatherby versions, I likely would miss it by a wider margin with the .375 Weatherby and wider yet with the .378 Weatherby, due to my dislike for the combination of both heavy and fast recoil, AKA I'd be flinching more drastically, in proportion to the recoil pain increasing with each step up in velocity (presuming the projectiles fired from each of the three rifles were, other than velocity, exactly the same).
Incidentally, I believe this precisely same concept to be true of the original .300 Magnum (the H&H of course) as compared to all the world's newer / faster .300 Magnums, including the .300 Weatherby.