Your favorite new production double rifle manufacturer?

[bassasdaindia]

I dislike Krieghoff, reason is the cocking system !

 

[bassasdaindia]

I'm with Matt here... WHAT issues on each of these choices makes your mouth water?
Is it the degree of chequering/ inlays/ the ejectors/ locking mechanism/ wood finish... overall finish & look... how about the shooting accuracy ( zeroing)... how deep must your pockets be? etc etc. I'm in the market to buy a double, but fall short of all the above answers!!!!

@Bruce , living here in SA and the current exchange rate , IMHO Merkel is the only double that ticks all the boxes with price being my major factor .

 

[matt85]

if only Merkel would make guns with longer barrels. a 24" barrel is too short for my liking and would greatly prefer 26-28 leaning more towards 28".

-matt

 

[bassasdaindia]

if only Merkel would make guns with longer barrels. a 24" barrel is too short for my liking and would greatly prefer 26-28 leaning more towards 28".

-matt

I can not answer for fact , but I would assume that the barrel length is this length because doubles are designed for quick pointing DG situations in close up quarters .

 

[matt85]

i dunno, most of the antique doubles ive seen had 27-30 inch barrels. short barreled doubles are more of a recent concept as far as ive seen. granted these longer barrels were likely used to try and eek out every last bit of power possible from black powder and cordite cartridges.

even if its no longer needed, i find the longer barrels to be more attractive. you also benefit from a longer sight radius which leads to more accurate shooting. having said that, i think if i was a professional hunter who spent all his time chasing wounded dangerous game in the thick bush i would probably use a short barreled rifle.

-matt

 

[gizmo]

Well I think the best double in the world is the Holland and Holland Royal double but who the hell can afford one. The craftsmanship is unbelievable and H&H has certainly earned a well deserved rep for superior quality over the last century and a half in Africa and India hunting the stuff that bites back.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Well I think the best double in the world is the Holland and Holland Royal double but who the hell can afford one. The craftsmanship is unbelievable and H&H has certainly earned a well deserved rep for superior quality over the last century and a half in Africa and India hunting the stuff that bites back.

now , this is where I differ , I am not referring to the Arab Princes , but to us "normal " folk I have a problem with these $250 000 rifles or doubles , I see the beauty but I would hate to take one of them on an African trip .

the rifles take such a beating from the elements , I don't mind my CZ's or Mod 70's getting scratched in the bush .

hence why I suggest the Merkel - IMHO the best value for money with regards to craftsmanship, strength etc .

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

i dunno, most of the antique doubles ive seen had 27-30 inch barrels. short barreled doubles are more of a recent concept as far as ive seen.

You don't think that the reason for this is because there are better powders on the market, menaing cleaner burns with better efficiency?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

And that's why I have the Merkel in .470 NE

...in mint condition, still in box.

 

[Pondoro]

Matt, short-barrelled doubles existed early too, my .475 NE is made somewhere between 1908 and 1925, it has 23" barrels...a very handy rifle and perfectly balanced....I see no point in barrel lenght over 24" in a heavy DB rifle....a short handy rifle is very useful in dense bush IMHO..

To your question, cost no object I would take a Purdey sidelock with a splinter fore-end because of the workmanship, quality and style.
I have a 1896 Purdey 12 gauge game gun....still tight with perfectly timed ejectors and I would love the Beesley self-opener in a double rifle too..

I also like the round- action VC rifles....very handy and and well balanced and the looks of a vintage english double....and last but not least a very strong action..

A buddy bought a round action in .450 NE and I am impressed by it.

I would love a round action VC in .577 or .600 NE as a stopper..!

Perhaps Napoleon Dynamite is doing their engraving?

Velo....I almost spilled coffee all over my lap-top over this one...

 

[matt85]

You don't think that the reason for this is because there are better powders on the market, menaing cleaner burns with better efficiency?

yep, that's what I meant by:

granted these longer barrels were likely used to try and eek out every last bit of power possible from black powder and cordite cartridges.

-------------------------

Matt, short-barrelled doubles existed early too, my .475 NE is made somewhere between 1908 and 1925, it has 23" barrels...a very handy rifle and perfectly balanced.

I have also seen a couple short antique rifles but I haven't seen many and they seem more of an exception rather than a rule.

....I see no point in barrel lenght over 24" in a heavy DB rifle....a short handy rifle is very useful in dense bush IMHO..

depending on the ammunition you may find your self with issues using certain cartridges from short barrels. the 577 NE and 600 NE come to mind, these cartridges operate at the lowest possible pressures and absolute lowest speeds. if you slow down either more then traditional loads fired from long barrels then you run the risk of poor penetration due to large bullet diameter. both cartridges have a nasty past reputation of failing to penetrate elephant skulls when run slow.

now this may not apply as much to cartridges under .585" but I still like to err on the safe side and not restrict my cartridge any more then required. plus as mentioned, if you are using iron sights then the longer sight radius does improve accuracy.

-matt

 

[bassasdaindia]

...in mint condition, still in box.

soon to be used extensively with a very good PH mate of mine

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

soon to be used extensively with a very good PH mate of mine

You're a lucky guy. Look after him. The good ones are scarce......

 

[ScottG]

Westley Richards, drop lock, no side plates just speaks to me one many levels.

 

[Pondoro]

yep, that's what I meant by:

-------------------------



I have also seen a couple short antique rifles but I haven't seen many and they seem more of an exception rather than a rule.



depending on the ammunition you may find your self with issues using certain cartridges from short barrels. the 577 NE and 600 NE come to mind, these cartridges operate at the lowest possible pressures and absolute lowest speeds. if you slow down either more then traditional loads fired from long barrels then you run the risk of poor penetration due to large bullet diameter. both cartridges have a nasty past reputation of failing to penetrate elephant skulls when run slow.

now this may not apply as much to cartridges under .585" but I still like to err on the safe side and not restrict my cartridge any more then required. plus as mentioned, if you are using iron sights then the longer sight radius does improve accuracy.

-matt

That is clearly a valid point...you need all the velocity you can get from the .577/.600..

I testfired a .600 with new Kynoch that is SUPPOSED to duplicate the .600-110-900 load, but alas, we had no chrono there and then so I never got to check it out, rifle barrel was 24" BTW..

 

[Pondoro]

Come to think of it, a Westley Richards gold name model in .577 or .600 should be nice...a no frills working rifle made for elephant hunting....not a life as a safe-queen..

 

[Red Leg]

now , this is where I differ , I am not referring to the Arab Princes , but to us "normal " folk I have a problem with these $250 000 rifles or doubles , I see the beauty but I would hate to take one of them on an African trip .

the rifles take such a beating from the elements , I don't mind my CZ's or Mod 70's getting scratched in the bush .

hence why I suggest the Merkel - IMHO the best value for money with regards to craftsmanship, strength etc .

I would suggest that if you someone afford a H&H he probably isn't concerned about normal hunting wear. With just a bit of use, both the Krieghoff and S2 cockers are just as fast as a regular safety and infinitely "safer" where you are number three marching single file through the bush.

 

[CAustin]

And that's why I have the Merkel in .470 NE

Larry I had the chance as you know to shoulder a Merkel while in SA and recently I looked at one at the Kansas City Cabela's. They are fine rifles for sure. Pieter's Blaser S2 500 NE was a nice rifle too.

Well this past Thursday I was at the Bass Pro store in Springfield ,MO and shouldered a Krieghoff 500 NE. It was a very nice rifle! Although at $27,000 it was a bit more than I would want to put into a rifle. The manager there and I discussed the many fine rifles in his gun room for a few minutes and then I shared a picture of my elephant with him. He asked what did you take hime with? When I told him it was a $1300 Ruger his jaw dropped!
Like you, I think the Merkel has a lot of value for the money and unless I win a lottery there will never be a Purdey or H and H in my gun safe. But I can dream of having one!

 

[bassasdaindia]

Larry I had the chance as you know to shoulder a Merkel while in SA and recently I looked at one at the Kansas City Cabela's. They are fine rifles for sure. Pieter's Blaser S2 500 NE was a nice rifle too.

Well this past Thursday I was at the Bass Pro store in Springfield ,MO and shouldered a Krieghoff 500 NE. It was a very nice rifle! Although at $27,000 it was a bit more than I would want to put into a rifle. The manager there and I discussed the many fine rifles in his gun room for a few minutes and then I shared a picture of my elephant with him. He asked what did you take hime with? When I told him it was a $1300 Ruger his jaw dropped!
Like you, I think the Merkel has a lot of value for the money and unless I win a lottery there will never be a Purdey or H and H in my gun safe. But I can dream of having one!

bye the way Charlie , you know how fond I am of my Ruger 416 Alaskan as well .

 

[bassasdaindia]

You're a lucky guy. Look after him. The good ones are scarce......

for sure , he's a good mate and a solid guy , I am blessed to have some good friends in my life that I can rely on .