Zimbabwe Goverment Lists 23 White-Owned Farms For Seizure

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with you Foxi.
Witold

 

[Pheroze]

Despite the horrible regime, Zimbabwe seems to have a layer of ethical, quality people that I hope represent the country's future. In addition to the hard working PHs there are the folks at Courtney boots who are great. I hear the area around Victoria Falls is well run. I thought the Wildlife ministry had some good folks working in it too.

My only direct experience came with questions I emailed to Courtney Boots and they are a very professional group. I will buy again from that company because I would hate to see it fail. There must be other similar companies struggling along there?

 

[gordon-kruger]

China doesn't care about laws outside of China, they bribe and destroy countries.

Yes.. and they spitting everywhere, homes or at restaurants, no problem... ...

 

[gordon-kruger]

Sorry Pheroze.. I should not be negative, but that Courtney company have perhaps nice people behind, but them boots is a joke.. I'm a "hunting boot fetish" and Courtney can't make a light weight boot because them sole is made from simple lorry tire... So, I don't understand why Westley Richards are connected to them at all ?
One other Zimbabwean company names TAG say that them hunting shirts/jackets is a - High Quality Safaris Inspired Product - Comes with low quality sowing, no quality inspection before delivery, sizes are very untrustable... If you order Medium you receive a XL .... it's Zim in a nutshell.

 

[spike.t]

gordon have to disagree with you on the courtney boots and tag shirts. my courtneys are like gloves and i have done everything in them........, and we use tag shirts and never had a problem with incorrect sizing or bad manufacture. find them long lasting even after many many many washings by the bush washing machine and ironer

 

[gordon-kruger]

Yes Mike, we have probably different preferences what quality stand for... I need a perfect working boot for tracking elephants for sometime up to 40-45 km on a day, therefore I need a light but strong ankle boot that make this possible, not a heavy truck tire "duck feet" boot with out ankle support, no people in the world can have that broad feet's... ........
I have try thous Zim boots for a week, and gave them to one of the boys in the camp... ridiculous expensive when I ask I friend to buy a par down in J-burg...

Frederik Courtney Selous is probably the reason why W-R falling for that joke boot !

Anyhow it's my opinion, and I'm sorry that things in my world is Black/White but I have try everything from Danner to Meindle to Timberland and Lowa to Keen and Merrel, then Russel Custom made boots... and there is no way to compare to those Zim boots..

Happy hunting !

G

 

[Wheels]

Gordon,

I agree that the Courtney boots are heavy and expensive. My experience has been that they are good quality though. It could be hard to get the quality without the weight. The TAG boots I have are fine, but don't have the Courtney quality in my opinion. The owners of TAG and Courtney both came out of the Shoe and Rubber Company in Bulawayo if I remember correct. (May not have the name completely correct).

I agree with Mike, the TAG shirts I have are all good quality. I try them on prior to buying them though. An advantage of attending DSC.

We can all choose what we like. That's the neat thing about opinion and choice.

 

[Pheroze]

Egads, I didn't mean to highjack this thread. I just wanted to point out the good that seems to survive there.

 

[Wheels]

Egads, I didn't mean to highjack this thread. I just wanted to point out the good that seems to survive there.

I didn't even read the title. Just responded to the last couple of posts.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Yes looks we sliding away from the subject, pardon

 

[gordon-kruger]

Why even thinking to go there as a white man, and then financially support the sitting government that don't want to see any white people !!!

 

[Kudurifle]

I empathize with the good people who are suffering under this government in Zimbabwe. I know this is incredible country, and I would love to see it and do what I could to help its economy. I just can not support the current government, even tacitly. I wouldn't presume to tell others what to do, but I notice that mainstream western media also ignores this racism and these land grabs. I am sure if the shoe was on another foot, they would scream bloody murder. I am equally sure Fidel Castro would support the conduct of this government as an example of what he once described as "social justice". I don't. Social justice is not achieved by further social injustice. And I am not concerned about sharing my contempt on a public forum. As Edmund Burke once said, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

 

[Mike70560]

The land takeovers have been going on for years from both white and black farmers who were not of the correct political affiliation.

What I am always amazed is that some people here understand the situation but I have read many reports on this very site of people hunting land that was STOLEN from the proper owners. Some have even acknowledged they knew there were problems but passed it off as "This Is Africa". It is despicable.

We should support the good operators in Zimbabwe. What they go through to keep there head above water is unbelievable. We should also support the operators that work to make their properties better, that provide the proper anti-poaching, work with the communities, and are conservationist not somebody that is in just to rape the land.

 

[Wheels]

The land takeovers have been going on for years from both white and black farmers who were not of the correct political affiliation.

What I am always amazed is that some people here understand the situation but I have read many reports on this very site of people hunting land that was STOLEN from the proper owners. Some have even acknowledged they knew there were problems but passed it off as "This Is Africa". It is despicable.

We should support the good operators in Zimbabwe. What they go through to keep there head above water is unbelievable. We should also support the operators that work to make their properties better, that provide the proper anti-poaching, work with the communities, and are conservationist not somebody that is in just to rape the land.

Mike,

I agree with most of what you say. We may not know the entire details of outfitters hunting on stolen land however.

There is a situation I am familiar with where a respected Zimbabwe outfitter has hunted on stolen land. He was good friends with the landowner and hunted there prior to the land invasions. The previous landowner has left Zimbabwe. The former landowner has given the outfitter his blessing to hunt on the land. The former land owner evidently cares about the sustainability of the herds and about a friend who is still trying to make it in the country. He may also not want the land completely raped if there is even the minute chance of recovery.

I am not saying this is the norm. I don't think it is. We may not always know the details however.

You know much more about what is going on in Zimbabwe than most Americans. I give you credit for staying up to date on the particulars. I would guess that most first and second time hunters to Zimbabwe that might post a hunting report don't know what might be stolen land and would be relying on the outfitter. Those people I am willing to give a pass to. If they however knew they were hunting on stolen land and there wasn't a situation like mentioned above, then I agree, it is despicable.

The good operators do deserve and need our support if the wildlife is to survive. Hopefully change will come to the country sooner than later.

All the best.

 

[Mike70560]

Wheels,

Very good points also. It has been said that it would be a great idea to for an operator to pay the proper owner something (with the owners blessing) and hunt the property. They could maintain the infrastructure, maintain anti-poaching, and be good stewards of the land. If (which is highly doubtful) the proper owner would have his land returned he would at least have something to come back to. This is somewhat utopian but it is nice to dream.

Another thing I have railed against is hunting in the parks (Hwange, Zambezi, etc.). I have seen clients attempt to justify hunting in the parks, I have had operators swear they are not hunting in the parks only to have their client post they are hunting out of Robbins Camp in Hwange. Just think if one of these "hunters" would shoot a tourist attraction elephant with a name IN THE PARK and the media would pick up on it like Cecil WHICH WAS SHOT OUTSIDE OF THE PARK).

We have got to do a better job of policing ourselves, not just in Zimbabwe but all over southern Africa. There are great operators everywhere that pour their hearts and souls in their areas. I just returned from Zambia and saw it with my own eyes there.

And Mike, I surely enjoyed dinner with you and Leon in Lusaka.

 

[Wheels]

Wheels,

Very good points also. It has been said that it would be a great idea to for an operator to pay the proper owner something (with the owners blessing) and hunt the property. They could maintain the infrastructure, maintain anti-poaching, and be good stewards of the land. If (which is highly doubtful) the proper owner would have his land returned he would at least have something to come back to. This is somewhat utopian but it is nice to dream.

Another thing I have railed against is hunting in the parks (Hwange, Zambezi, etc.). I have seen clients attempt to justify hunting in the parks, I have had operators swear they are not hunting in the parks only to have their client post they are hunting out of Robbins Camp in Hwange. Just think if one of these "hunters" would shoot a tourist attraction elephant with a name IN THE PARK and the media would pick up on it like Cecil WHICH WAS SHOT OUTSIDE OF THE PARK).

We have got to do a better job of policing ourselves, not just in Zimbabwe but all over southern Africa. There are great operators everywhere that pour their hearts and souls in their areas. I just returned from Zambia and saw it with my own eyes there.

And Mike, I surely enjoyed dinner with you and Leon in Lusaka.

Agreed, if one of the 100 pounders is shot in the park by an American it could be worse than Cecil. Especially if his name is Dumbo! It is my understanding that ZPHGA and SOAZ members can't hunt in the parks. Is this correct? As you mentioned, we have to police ourselves. Another good reason to use members of the associations.

I don't want to hijack the thread but how did your hunt with Leon K. go? Would you post at least a short report with some photos in the hunting reports section?

All the best.

 

[spike.t]

And Mike, I surely enjoyed dinner with you and Leon in Lusaka.

Mike glad i was in lusaka when you came back in from your hunt with leon, it was a pleasure to meet up with you even if the power took a bit to sort itself out and the menu became limited! and good to hear you had a fine time with leon and andrew. hope you head back in the future ............

 

[Mike70560]

Wheels,

It was my first trip to Zambia. I had a very good hunt on Royal Kafue. Took a nice buffalo in the tall grass, a good roan, and a good puku.

Leon is a fine PH. We changed areas at the last minute due to typical government bureaucracy. It worked out great and Andrew is a stand up guy. Full report to follow.

Mike,

Hopefully the government sorts out the power situation. I do enjoy a candlelight dinner but when eating with the likes of you and Leon it is my preference to have full lighting.

 

[Wheels]

Wheels,

It was my first trip to Zambia. I had a very good hunt on Royal Kafue. Took a nice buffalo in the tall grass, a good roan, and a good puku.

Leon is a fine PH. We changed areas at the last minute due to typical government bureaucracy. It worked out great and Andrew is a stand up guy. Full report to follow.

Mike,

Hopefully the government sorts out the power situation. I do enjoy a candlelight dinner but when eating with the likes of you and Leon it is my preference to have full lighting.

Mike,

Congratulations on the animals. Glad you had a good hunt with Andrew and Leon. Will look forward to reading all about it.

Candlelight dinner with Taylor?!?!