45-70 for dangerous game?

[crs]

"but it all turns to nothing when your PH tells you to stick your 45/70 up your arse and use the safari companies' .375! "

A Cute, but childish response for a PROFESSIONAL hunter.

Such details must be worked out BFEORE agreeing to hunt with an Outfitter/PH.
One RSA landowner was curious about my 400 grain ammo for my 1895 .405, but liked it when he saw it. He liked it even better when he saw what it did to the Cape Buff. In fact, he treated us to drinks and snacks just to handle the rifle and swap stories. Good Guy!

After seeing the 450 grain North Fork flat point solid bullets loaded at 2150 fps for my .45-90,(.458 2.4) no one asked about killing power . Neither did the DG it took. Reckon they though it was from a 450 NE.

 

[Professor Mawla]

I strongly believe that the .45-70 Government calibre ( employing 300 grain high quality Trophy Bonded Bear Claw expanding bullets , as loaded by Federal for their Premium line ) would be perfectly adequate for hunting black bears , Kodiak bears , leopards or wild boars . I would however , hesitate to use it on elephants , Cape buffalo , Gaur , Royal Bengal tigers or lions .

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

I think I remember seeing somewhere of someone killing the big 5 with only a 45-70

 

[crs]

Thumper,
Your memory is correct.
Part of the reason for differing opinions is differing experience and education. If all hunters knew all the same information, what would there to discuss , debate, or argue about?
Forums like this do help by providing a place to share the facts and educate the uneducated.

 

[crs]

Professor Mawla,
US hunters use the 30-30 to kill a lot of black bears. And other rifles and the 45-70 of course. Wild boars are also easy as my son and many others take them with a .223. A leopard dies fast when hit with Nosler Partition PP, especially in a .458. Premium bullets such as the Bear Claw are nice but not necessary.
This 300+ pound boar was shot with a Remington 300 grain jacketed soft point from my 45-70 DR which has recently been upgraded to 45-90 and reregulated.

The Gaur is now available on Texas exotic ranches as are Cape Buff and water buff. I took a big water buff with one shot from my .405 WCF with NF 300 grain CPS(which is a Premium bullet) and took my family a long time to eat all the meat, so I do not plan to shoot a Gaur.

 

[JimP]

Some need to realize that the old 45-70 has been taking the great bears for over a 140 years now. But most would of opted for the 45-90 or 50-110 cambering.

A old friend has a Winchester 1886 in 45-70 that was made in 1890 that his grandfather used in Alaska to take care of those pesky bears around his cabin.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I think the downside of a 45-70 is you only get velocity with a lighter and low SD bullet. With a heavier bullet things are slower so theoretically there is less shock. The critter wi die but maybe not DRT.

A lot of guys carry 45-70s in Alaska but if they are actually hunting they usually grab a longer range rifle like a 338 Win Mag. I haven't heard a lot of stories of actual kills on big bears with a 45-70. Will it punch through? Sure. Will it kill as fast as a 338 or 375? I'm not sure either way.

If you do the math a heavier 45-70 load puts out roughly the same recoil at a 375. Once I realized that I gave up looking for a 45-70 and bought a 375 Ruger. No regrets.

 

[Longwalker]

I had a .45-70 marlin "Guide Gun" that I originally purchased to fend off "those pesky bears around the cabin". It was fun to shoot at tin cans and such, but I soon realized that If I was defending hearth and home against a big grizzly or hunting dangerous game bigger than leopards or the smaller bears, I'd rather use my 9.3x62, 9.3x74R or even .35 Whelen with heavy for caliber bullets. Better penetration, better trajectory, with less recoil. And I have a .375 H&H and a .450-400 as well, so I sold my .45-70. Just couldn't think of a good reason to keep it any more.

 

[TOBY458]

With some of the newer high tech brass and copper bullets, you can get some pretty impressive results according to some tests I've seen done by @michael458 . With this technology, you don't really need 400+ grain bullets. I'd bet for the big bears, and everything else in the USA, you would be fine with a good 325-350gr high tech brass bullet like the Cutting Edge Raptors or similar.

 

[JimP]

When I mentioned about the old Alaskan protecting the cabin from pesky bears the time frame was back in the 1890's to around the 1920's.

Then after the 20's a new bear round came out, the 348 Winchester which soon became the bear medicine for those that could afford a Winchester 71

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I always thought that my GBL would be fine for bears (brown) before I went to Africa. After watching how fast my buffalo got dead I feel even more so. She was very likely larger than any bear I'd have to address. For what it's worth my camp gun is a short Mossberg with Brenneke slugs.

 

[freefall]

I have been trudging the South central brush for 40+ years now, carrying a variety of ordnance. A couple years ago I bought a Remlin 1895 in 45-70 to deal with those pesky bears in a tight spot. More better than a 12 ga, I think. I would not quail before any animal on this planet using this rifle and HSM 430 gr8 bear loads at 1850 fps. Would 2200 fps be better? Maybe. But these loads will penetrate through muscle and bone for over 4 feet, and I think "that'll do, pig. "

 

[crs]

Toby 458,
Happy to report good frontal brain shot success with .458 450 grain Brass Punch bullets shooting through ele head and into body with MV of 2150 fps , DRT. A 45-90, not a 45-70.
My 45-90 DR is regulated with North Fork 350 SS bullets at 2200 fps which promise good results.

 

[michael458]

With this technology, you don't really need 400+ grain bullets. I'd bet for the big bears, and everything else in the USA, you would be fine with a good 325-350gr high tech brass bullet like the Cutting Edge Raptors or similar.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@michael458 ... I used those 325s last year over there. Absolutely fabulous... love'm and will use them again.

 

[michael458]

@michael458 ... I used those 325s last year over there. Absolutely fabulous... love'm and will use them again.

Excellent............ You can enhance any cartridge by choosing the right bullet. 20 years ago, we did not have the "right" bullets for 45/70 to enhance it. I spent a good bit of time with 45/70 in those days, and I came up short a few times, because we just did not have proper bullets that we have today. I wish I would have had the Cutting Edge bullets, North Fork Expanding CPS in 350 and 325, and some of the Newer Lehigh Extreme Penetrators, in those days.......................

This fellow almost gave me some issues because of bullets not being good enough for the mission at hand...... Only Patience and Good Luck was responsible for this photo............

A few years ago a Friend of My Friend wanted to go to Africa for Buffalo. I was charged with loading a proper bullet and the getting him sorted out. Not really a shooter. I first was thinking combination of 325 North Fork and the 325 Solids....... Since I did not have the gun, I could not check POI...... I ruled that out, since POI might be an issue, in his gun. After much contemplation on the matter, I decided its best to keep it simple as possible and try to cover all possible situations he might run into. This ended up being the 400 CEB Lever Solid at 1850 fps. One bullet, one load, not too complicated, and would do the job. Do the job it did, at around 40 yards, broadside shot straight through the heart, buffalo bull down for the count at 25 yards........... This was the right decision on this one.

Today, I would look really hard at one of the Lehigh Extremes followed up by one of the CEB Solids for 45/70.........

With Todays bullet selections, and superior tech, the 45/70 is better than ever, and can do far more than it could do reliably 20 years ago...........

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I hope to go back for a bull someday with mine. It killed the cow in my profile photo, as well as a large zebra. Again, very happy with bullet performance.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

The .45-70 can be loaded very heavy in a strong action. Years ago I loaded it to a chronographed 2200fps with the 400gr Speer in a Ruger #1. It was not a real fun load & the 400gr Speer isn’t tough enough for dangerous game, but it really took deer with authority. It also kicked the reticule out of a Redfield scope. With a proper bullet & shoulder impervious to recoil I think it’d work. I don’t do this anymore.

 

[Forrest Halley]

The .45-70 can be loaded very heavy in a strong action. Years ago I loaded it to a chronographed 2200fps with the 400gr Speer in a Ruger #1. It was not a real fun load & the 400gr Speer isn’t tough enough for dangerous game, but it really took deer with authority. It also kicked the reticule out of a Redfield scope. With a proper bullet & shoulder impervious to recoil I think it’d work. I don’t do this anymore.

I don't push that bullet that hard in my .458 Lott at 9½ lbs. Congratulations you have survived some serious recoil in a #1. I can only imagine what it would do up against the Lott with my full power loads. Not fun I'm guessing. What was the load, if you don't mind?

 

[michael458]

I hope to go back for a bull someday with mine. It killed the cow in my profile photo, as well as a large zebra. Again, very happy with bullet performance.

@Tundra Tiger .....ok, used a 325 #13 Lever Solid, what velocity, and bullet performance, depth of penetration, that sort of thing....... zebra too......... Interested in terminals.............

I always felt like the combo of 325 Expanding North Fork and matched with the 325 Lever Solid would be a good combo for buffalo......... Last couple of years, I also like that Lehigh Extreme Penetrator.... in combination with the Solids of course........ You always want the solids to back up everything. BTW, I think you made an excellent choice in bullet selection, very professional. Well Done.

The .45-70 can be loaded very heavy in a strong action.

Yep, Ruger #1 can be loaded up. But the lever guns, Marlins need to be held to 45000 PSI, the 1886s can go a bit more, I have pushed mine to 50000 PSI.... The Ruger #1s much more........ probably more than you want........ LOL........