Accidental Discharge

[Fred Gunner]

Tell that to the people that had their Remington 700's fire when the safety was flipped off.

As I recall the Courts found that Remington Arms was indeed Negligent

 

[sierraone]

As a wise firearms instructor told our class there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge" It's always a Negligent Discharge!

Up until just a few years ago, it was officially called a "accidental discharge" in the military. I am pretty sure it has changed to negligent discharge now though.

 

[Fred Gunner]

isn't an unwanted pregnancy a negligent discharge???

 

[crs]

Bonk and SES,
years ago, on a hunt in far west Texas, I hunted with a young man who carried his Dads Remington 700 because his father told him to. Young man was uneasy with it because he liked his lever action rifle.
After the morning hunt we returned to the camp area and I unloaded my Model70 .308 before crossing through the barb wire fence. He did not unload his rifle due to lack of familiarity with rifle, so I held it for him while he came through fence. We checked in with the hunt master and while standing around the fire with our rifles over our arms, the M700 30-06 fired. The bullet hit exactly between my feet and went on to open country.
I can still remember how calm I was looking at the hole in the loose rocks between my feet.
and how scared and shocked the young man was. No harm, no foul.

It turned out that either his father or uncle had been tinkering with the rifle trigger the night before, trying to adjust /lighten the trigger pull. The stupidity of those two adults could have blown my leg off at the ankle more than 100 miles from the nearest town. It also turned off a promising young hunter as he swore off hunting then and there.
I also learned a lesson and about knowing more about who I hunt with. I hunted alone the rest of that week.

 

[Bonk]

I dont think there was ever a verifiable incident with a 700 that could be definitively proven that an un-messed with trigger was the culprit., though if I am wrong about that, be happy to see the provable case.
Remington paid off to avoid further suits and changed the trigger.
The most infamous of the incidents of course was where the mom shot and killed her son while loading or unloading the rifle, dont remember, but that was the case that really cooked it for Remington. The rifle in question was not at fault, the mother was negligent for pointing the rifle at her son. I understand that she was understandably horrified, and the brain sometimes cannot accept what just happened and someone else must be at fault, but it was her fault.

Skip the CNBC slant/bias and go to the 9:00 minute mark and start watching until about the 12 minute mark. There's video proof of several documented cases.

 

[Bonk]

Let me reiterate that I personally had a Kimber 84 that did the exact same thing. Kimber replaced the entire bolt assembly without a second thought.

 

[Philip Glass]

They do not mention the make of double but it was a rifle issue double discharge on closing the action.....I have my own guess on what rifle it is....
I would not trust it ever again

Do tell!

 

[Bonk]

So one finger pulled both triggers as he closed the rifle? And then after it came back from repairs the issue was solved.......

I don't understand Afrikaans so I have no idea what they were saying. I'm basing my comment solely on what I can see in the video. To me it looks like his finger was POSSIBLY on the trigger. I'm not making any accusations. I'm just responding to the topic after watching the video.

 

[Andrew62]

Tell that to the people that had their Remington 700's fire when the safety was flipped off. I had a Kimber that did the same thing but I was fortunate enough to discover it while the gun was empty. There is such a thing as an accidental discharge. Your wise instructor is wrong.

30 years ago I had a Remington go off twice by just pushing the safety from 'safe to fire', I sold the rifle but was sure to tell the new owner of what happened. To this day I have never owned another Remington, which I know is silly, but I just cannot get past the horrible feeling of having a gun go off in such a manner!!

 

[sestoppelman]

Bonk and SES,
years ago, on a hunt in far west Texas, I hunted with a young man who carried his Dads Remington 700 because his father told him to. Young man was uneasy with it because he liked his lever action rifle.
After the morning hunt we returned to the camp area and I unloaded my Model70 .308 before crossing through the barb wire fence. He did not unload his rifle due to lack of familiarity with rifle, so I held it for him while he came through fence. We checked in with the hunt master and while standing around the fire with our rifles over our arms, the M700 30-06 fired. The bullet hit exactly between my feet and went on to open country.
I can still remember how calm I was looking at the hole in the loose rocks between my feet.
and how scared and shocked the young man was. No harm, no foul.

It turned out that either his father or uncle had been tinkering with the rifle trigger the night before, trying to adjust /lighten the trigger pull. The stupidity of those two adults could have blown my leg off at the ankle more than 100 miles from the nearest town. It also turned off a promising young hunter as he swore off hunting then and there.
I also learned a lesson and about knowing more about who I hunt with. I hunted alone the rest of that week.

How did the rifle fire? Just by holding it? Just went off?

 

[Philip Glass]

I can not see that his finger is on the trigger. It looks as if his trigger finger is straight as it should be. We will never know for sure.
This is an example of how all doubles are not created equal. I cringe when I hear so many salivating over a cheap double. If you insist on buying any Double you should be willing to take it to a highly skilled gunsmith if need be. To Each his own but these things worry me.
PG

 

[sestoppelman]

Skip the CNBC slant/bias and go to the 9:00 minute mark and start watching until about the 12 minute mark. There's video proof of several documented cases.

I watched about half the vid, so I would say I stand corrected. I had seen some of that info before but forgot about it.
I still contend and agree with Remingtons basic point that people messing with things they dont understand and ignoring basic gun handling safety is largely responsible for the injuries and deaths, in fact totally really.
An unintended discharge hurts no one if we are not covering someone with our muzzles. That people shoot other people is because of unsafe gun handling, unless it was intentional of course.
I have owned and still own Rem 700 rifles from first generation on and have never had one go off unless I pulled the trigger.
That is has happened appears to be indisputable, that injuries resulted as consequence is due to user negligence.

 

[Bonk]

30 years ago I had a Remington go off twice by just pushing the safety from 'safe to fire', I sold the rifle but was sure to tell the new owner of what happened. To this day I have never owned another Remington, which I know is silly, but I just cannot get past the horrible feeling of having a gun go off in such a manner!!

I get it. My primary hunting rifle for almost 20 years was an R700 30-06. After learning about the potential for disaster with R700 rifles I sold it. I didn't trust it any more even though it had never malfunctioned on me. I'll never own another one.

To be fair, only a tiny percentage of the millions of R700 rifles sold have had failures resulting in an AD. I clearly recognize I'm being paranoid and unreasonable but it is what it is. I don't even like being around them. The bad experience with my Kimber isn't helping. YMMV.

 

[crs]

"How did the rifle fire? Just by holding it? Just went off?"
Yes. It was laying on his forearm and BANG !

That experience caused me to be much more insistent about safety. I should have unloaded the rifle for the teenager.
At least It helped me do a better job of teaching family and friends about firearm safety.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As a wise firearms instructor told our class there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge" It's always a Negligent Discharge!

@Fred Gunner
I was always told accidents don't happen, arseholes cause them, but in this case it appears to be a rifle fault. Still an arsehole involved in it somewhere not checking proper function
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

"How did the rifle fire? Just by holding it? Just went off?"
Yes. It was laying on his forearm and BANG !

That experience caused me to be much more insistent about safety. I should have unloaded the rifle for the teenager.
At least It helped me do a better job of teaching family and friends about firearm safety.

Well thats a new one on me. Even the Remingtons that went off unintentionally had some human interaction.

 

[sestoppelman]

Remington Did not Settle Sandy Hook Lawsuit

Remington, the gun manufacturer, did not settle a lawsuit over the mass murder which occurred at Sandy Hook, CT. Insurance companies did. Remington, the gun manufacturer, no longer exists.

www.ammoland.com

Found this while looking at other things about the trigger. Its interesting...

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Regarding the pregnancy jest, I'd change the word 'unwanted' to unintended or unplanned. My oldest daughter was unplanned. She certainly wasn't unwanted, not from the very first moment of knowledge.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have a 2009 Remington 700 which came with their "new" factory CMP trigger at the time. Then they had a recall on that to check if too much "bonding agent" had been applied during manufacture. I sent it back to them and when I got it back everything checked OK. I have an older Rem 700 with the "Walker" trigger. They finally had a recall on that and I was in the process of sending it to them to have them install the CMP trigger and then they filed for bankruptcy. I wonder what happened to all the rifles sent to the contract gunsmiths' to replace the triggers when Remington went bankrupt? They wouldn't have been getting paid any longer to replace the triggers? I never had an AD with either rifle.

 

[baxterb]

I dont think there was ever a verifiable incident with a 700 that could be definitively proven that an un-messed with trigger was the culprit., though if I am wrong about that, be happy to see the provable case.
Remington paid off to avoid further suits and changed the trigger.
The most infamous of the incidents of course was where the mom shot and killed her son while loading or unloading the rifle, dont remember, but that was the case that really cooked it for Remington. The rifle in question was not at fault, the mother was negligent for pointing the rifle at her son. I understand that she was understandably horrified, and the brain sometimes cannot accept what just happened and someone else must be at fault, but it was her fault.

I can show you a hole in a fence and an air conditioner that has a bullet from a 300 RUM that went off as the bolt was closed, trigger and safety not touched. This happened in 1999 at the old inter mountain outdoors. In Idaho. My good friend was the guy who closed the bolt. No, he didn’t do the right thing, but it happened.