Accidental Discharge

[C.W. Richter]

The problem with the Remington 700 trigger was a tool in Joe Sixthumbs hands could adjust it to the point of being on the hairy edge of firing when cocked or on closing. I'm not convinced in any of the videos showing ADs, including the military and LEO ones, that someone didn't dick around with the triggers. It was just too tempting and easy.

esp. w/ the externally adjustable "X-pro" triggers that were key in shutting 'em down. Although there was a recall before they closed, I adjusted my son's and then epoxied the set screw to the trigger (it would come loose by simply shooting). No issues to date, but I'll replace it with a quality aftermarket unit (Timney or eq.) in the future. Rem should've used or suggested loctite, but the thin sheet metal trigger and lack-o-threads just lent itself to trouble there...(x pro means no longer professional, btw.) LOL

 

[Hogpatrol]

The protocol for adjusting the 700's trigger was to adjust and then slam the butt down on a hard surface. I'm reasonably sure not everyone with a nice, brand new 700 BDL with a plastic buttplate did that before his AD.

 

[C.W. Richter]

right, or in the Baldwin school of Armourizing & Combat in Hollyweird, CA, they practice the keep-it-loaded, pointed toward unintended target, finger-on-trigger method...It's revolutionary! Even IF the triggers were messed up, practicing the even more lifesaving 10 commandments would avert most gun handling tragedies!

'Had a 0.8 lb trigger on a heavy bbl .22-250 once (Timney Calvin model.) Son uses it on a (still alive) 400 yd woodchuck one summer (1st time he ever fired the gun.) He lined up and BANG (the trigger went off more prematurely than the shooter expected-and he cursed for the 1st time in his life-at ME-for building the gun. I LMAO and said you were in such a hurry I never got the chance to tell you to go easy on the trigger!) All good-pointed the right way, no finger on until shooting, etc. Also stock pound on ground tested many times, like all other guns I've installed (or adj) triggers on! 'Had one really nice M70 where the prior owner filed the trigger (but not an equal amt off the sear)...this is a very common mistake where the safety won't engage-it's always in fire position. Easy to fix, but a dangerous situation for an unknowing gun buyer. There's an old book series "Gunsmithing Kinks" came in many volumes but I have 'em and read 'em as a kid. V. helpful!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Technically that was an ND but I get your point.

Maybe so, but the truck and camper didn't know the difference? LOL

 

[C.W. Richter]

Is there some % responsibility, on behalf (% TBD by legal scholars lol) of gun owners to give it a good inspection prior to each use? Any problems every experienced (firing pin spring broken, firing pin broken, stuck cartridge, dud factory ammo, gun off safety due to close DG proximity-but gun fired when bushes caught on the trigger-absent finger, whilst gun pointed in safe direction.) I got a Christmas Card from that Buff that year! LOL now. BE SAFE OUT THERE!

 

[WAB]

If your gun goes off, you are 100% responsible whether you pulled the trigger or not.

 

[sestoppelman]

If your gun goes off, you are 100% responsible whether you pulled the trigger or not.

Yep, thats we she said allright.

 

[Bonk]

I would buy an Antonio Zoli O/U before I buy a VC.... .

Hey! I have a Zoli O/U. What's wrong with Zoli?

 

[C.W. Richter]

If your gun goes off, you are 100% responsible whether you pulled the trigger or not.

If your gun goes off by itself, Rem might be liable! lol and/or Alec Baldwin. Bodies at rest should remain at rest. It's when they're pointed (by you) in the wrong direction that issues arise...

 

[CraigV]

If your gun goes off, you are 100% responsible whether you pulled the trigger or not.

Thanks WAB, Perfect!!!

 

[Newboomer]

Thanks WAB, Perfect!!!

I don't touch any of my triggers except to place finger on when I shoot. All my new guns go to my friendly neighborhood gunsmith before I load or put one round through them. He adjusts, and tests them if needed.

 

[wesheltonj]

I know guys who had accidental discharges and it cost them a LOT of money. View attachment 458068

At least that’s what they claim.

 

[One Day...]

And here we go again...

Yet another case of incompetent rifle butchering, ooops sorry, I meant to type "gunsmithing" turning a perfectly fine rifle into a danger to self and others...

This time some idiot is adjusting double rifle triggers to competition rifle pull... The stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course, the clown, ooops sorry, I meant to type "gunsmith" does not even function-check his carnage, ooops sorry, I meant to type "work"... Again, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course, the amateur, ooops sorry, I meant to type "owner" does not even try the new trigger pull and does not even function-check the rifle before loading it. Once more, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And internet lore flows freely.......

Heck yes, quick man quick, what is the brand of the rifle? let us hurry to blame the rifle maker! and let us be as forceful in our dogmatic and pontificating condemnation as we are ignorant of the facts in the case! Ayayayayayay.... The stupidity...............

In addition to jonojoseph, who apparently confuses what should be the trigger pull on a double .500 NE with what the trigger pull of a match .22 LR is, if any name need to be asked, it is the name of the moronic idiot "bubbasmith" who trashed, ooops sorry, I meant to type "worked" on the rifle and did not even check his own work... Again, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the language, but this really annoys me...

Darn few rifles "double"... in most cases shooters "double"...

I had an English double rifle double on me once while shooting at a cape buffalo. I pressed the front trigger and somehow during the recoil I also pressed the rear trigger.

No, the rifle did not double on you. You doubled on the rifle. The rifle is supposed to fire the second barrel when you press the rear trigger.................................

After researching the incident, I learned that a lot of experienced double shooters always use the rear trigger first. Since I adopted that technique, it never happened again.

Not true!

Experienced double rifle shooters do not strum the triggers under recoil...

Only inexperienced double rifle shooters use the rear trigger first...

It is not your fault cbvanb, you were the victim of yet another example of "internet PH-ing" or "internet expertise", the "technique" you learned is a joke, and rightfully scorned upon by actual experienced double rifle shooters.

You and the folks who "liked" your post need to unlearn this erroneous practice and learn the proper technique: to prevent trigger strumming (like strumming the strings of a guitar) the shooter needs to have a firm and tight grasp on the pistol grip so that when the rifle recoils and pushes the shoulder and the shooting arm back, the hand does not slide back on the pistol grip and the trigger finger does not strum the triggers

Simple enough, right? And the trigger finger can then transition instantly to the rear trigger should a second shot be needed, exactly as a double is designed to be used.
.

 

[IvW]

Hey! I have a Zoli O/U. What's wrong with Zoli?

Who said thete is something wrong with an Antonio Zoli ?????

 

[VertigoBE]

And here we go again...

Yet another case of incompetent rifle butchering, ooops sorry, I meant to type "gunsmithing" turning a perfectly fine rifle into a danger to self and others...

This time some idiot is adjusting double rifle triggers to competition rifle pull... The stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course, the clown, ooops sorry, I meant to type "gunsmith" does not even function-check his carnage, ooops sorry, I meant to type "work"... Again, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course, the amateur, ooops sorry, I meant to type "owner" does not even try the new trigger pull and does not even function-check the rifle before loading it. Once more, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

View attachment 458107

And internet lore flows freely.......

Heck yes, quick man quick, what is the brand of the rifle? let us hurry to blame the rifle maker! and let us be as forceful in our dogmatic and pontificating condemnation as we are ignorant of the facts in the case! Ayayayayayay.... The stupidity...............

In addition to jonojoseph, who apparently confuses what should be the trigger pull on a double .500 NE with what the trigger pull of a match .22 LR is, if any name need to be asked, it is the name of the moronic idiot "bubbasmith" who trashed, ooops sorry, I meant to type "worked" on the rifle and did not even check his own work... Again, the stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the language, but this really annoys me...

Darn few rifles "double"... in most cases shooters "double"...



No, the rifle did not double on you. You doubled on the rifle. The rifle is supposed to fire the second barrel when you press the rear trigger.................................



Not true!

Experienced double rifle shooters do not strum the triggers under recoil...

Only inexperienced double rifle shooters use the rear trigger first...

It is not your fault cbvanb, you were the victim of yet another example of "internet PH-ing" or "internet expertise", the "technique" you learned is a joke, and rightfully scorned upon by actual experienced double rifle shooters.

You and the folks who "liked" your post need to unlearn this erroneous practice and learn the proper technique: to prevent trigger strumming (like strumming the strings of a guitar) the shooter needs to have a firm and tight grasp on the pistol grip so that when the rifle recoils and pushes the shoulder and the shooting arm back, the hand does not slide back on the pistol grip and the trigger finger does not strum the triggers

Simple enough, right? And the trigger finger can then transition instantly to the rear trigger should a second shot be needed, exactly as a double is designed to be used.
.

Hello @One Day…

I agree with you that based on the limited information we have on this case, the fault seems to lie with the gunsmith (and then the owner not function checking unloaded)

However, this does not seem to be the first such story I have read on VC rifles in the past year. While Krieghoff, Merkel, Heym, etc are much more rarely involved in such kinds of controversies. Or do we all have selective information bias.

I remain convinced that a quality double rifle (or quality anything) should not need to have the trigger worked over once the rifle has left the factory. So though this AD has its causes with an incompetent gunsmith, it still remains a bit the responsibility of VC for evoking a need to ‘better’ it’s operation.

 

[Tanks]

...

I remain convinced that a quality double rifle (or quality anything) should not need to have the trigger worked over once the rifle has left the factory. So though this AD has its causes with an incompetent gunsmith, it still remains a bit the responsibility of VC for evoking a need to ‘better’ it’s operation.

I don't know if it was the question of "need" rather than "want". I know folks that send any rifle that they purchase to their gunsmith to lighten the trigger to their preference.

 

[John Wasmuth]

If your gun goes off, you are 100% responsible whether you pulled the trigger or not.

Unless yer Alec Baldwin……..

 

[Inline6]

I have a friend that has two gun safes full of 700’s and everyone of them had their trigger replaced with Jewell Triggers.

I'll never own a Jewell trigger, personally have seen to many fail, to many NDs because people wearing gloves, and they can not handle dusty conditions. It's a bench rest rifle trigger that is not designed for field use.

 

[One Day...]

...
I remain convinced that a quality double rifle (or quality anything) should not need to have the trigger worked over once the rifle has left the factory. So though this AD has its causes with an incompetent gunsmith, it still remains a bit the responsibility of VC for evoking a need to ‘better’ it’s operation.

Friend, we have no idea that this rifle would "need to have the trigger worked over once the rifle has left the factory"

The only thing that we have to go by is that assumedly the owner wanted a lighter trigger. Considering that the owner did not bother to try the new trigger pull on snap caps or even to function-check the rifle prior to loading it, it does not inspire me a great deal of confidence in his judgment as what that rifle needed or did not need...............................

Double rifles - especially! due to the regulation process - are shot at the factory. We have zero reason to believe that this rifle had inappropriate trigger pull. This would have been detected during regulation. A bolt rifle may (?) conceivably miss the firing test for proofing, but a double simply cannot get out of the factory without being fired repeatedly, and I will trust the judgement of any regulator from any double rifle maker over that of this owner, as to whether these triggers were properly adjusted or not...

I also absolutely disagree that "it still remains a bit the responsibility of VC for evoking a need to ‘better’ it’s operation". Countless rifles, engines, whatever, you name it, are destroyed daily by John-Doe-Public-who-knows-better... In this case, my money is on the owner wrongly wanting a match grade bolt action trigger pull on a double, which a good double should not have. Its triggers should have pulls similar to a shotgun triggers, not a tuned-up bolt action rifle, due to the dynamics of instinctive shooting.

I'll never own a Jewell trigger, personally have seen to many fail, to many NDs because people wearing gloves, and they can not handle dusty conditions. It's a bench rest rifle trigger that is not designed for field use.

100%.

This is not so much about Jewell, or Timney, or Geissele, etc. triggers., they are all great FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.

The error here is to want a benchrest or match rifle trigger on a hunting rifle, which is already questionable for a bolt action that may see excited use or snap shooting, and which is especially wrong for a double rifle which is mostly designed for defensive instinctive shooting.

 

[Tanks]

...

This is not so much about Jewell, or Timney, or Geissele, etc. triggers., they are all great FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.

The error here is to want a benchrest or match rifle trigger on a hunting rifle, which is already questionable for a bolt action that may see excited use or snap shooting, and which is especially wrong for a double rifle which is mostly designed for defensive instinctive shooting.

Well, a lot of custom rifle manufacturers do use Jewell, Timney or TriggerTech (sp) for their bolt action hunting rifles. I have either Jewell or TriggerTech on my custom bolt action rifles and never had an issue with them at the range or hunting. The intended purpose in this case is for hunting rifles as intended by the gun maker.

That being said, I would never adjust or change the trigger on my double rifles or shotguns.