Barnes TSX vs Swift A-Frame on Buffalo

[WyoBull]

I know the Swift A-frame works also but my experience is with Barnes. No need to reinvent the wheel and a lot of good information has been shared on this topic.

 

[MontanaPat]

I've used both the Barnes TSX 300 gr and Swift A Frame 300 gr in my M70 375 HH with great results and would be happy with either. I used the Barnes TSX on my cape buffalo because that is what my PH said he preferred I use. One shot from 75 yards as he was quartering away, entered around the last rib, thru the lung and heart and stopped in the far side shoulder. Buff went about 40-50 yards and piled up, did an insurance shot from about 15 yards at the PH's request but he was already dead. Pic below is from the two 300 gr TSX recovered from the buff, bullet on the right in the photo is the first killing shot found in the offside shoulder, bullet on left was the insurance shot found under the skin.

As he lay when we walked up to him.

This summer I shot my eland in Botswana using the 375HH with a 300gr A Frame, the bull was shot broadside from about 60 yards, thru the brush. Hit him square on the shoulder, he jumped and went about 10 yards and DRT. Asked skinners to find the bullet but not sure if they did as I never saw it at the skinning shed.

I also used my .308 this summer for everything else using Norma factory ammo loaded with 180gr A Frames and they were like Thor's hammer on everything from Zebra and Kudu down to a steenbok. Nothing went further than 30 feet from where it was shot and most dropped in their tracks. Overall shot 10 animals with the .308 and all were one shot kills. I think the TSX and A Frame are both great bullet options.

Pat

 

[Tra3]

I agree with @Challer both are good. I wouldn’t overthink it.
I personally favor barnes and have used them in the .375. They haven’t exited on multiple buffalo, giraffe, hippo and eland.
They usually exit on PG.

Buy some cheap .375 ammo and practice a lot. Bring as much of the good stuff as you can to Africa and hunt everything with the .375.
If you are hunting buffalo in thicker brush, you probably won’t get a second shot. So practice until you can’t miss!

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I've used both the Barnes TSX 300 gr and Swift A Frame 300 gr in my M70 375 HH with great results and would be happy with either. I used the Barnes TSX on my cape buffalo because that is what my PH said he preferred I use.

This summer I shot my eland in Botswana using the 375HH with a 300gr A Frame, the bull was shot broadside from about 60 yards, thru the brush. Hit him square on the shoulder, he jumped and went about 10 yards and DRT. Asked skinners to find the bullet but not sure if they did as I never saw it at the skinning shed.

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I also used my .308 this summer for everything else using Norma factory ammo loaded with 180gr A Frames and they were like Thor's hammer on everything from Zebra and Kudu down to a steenbok. Nothing went further than 30 feet from where it was shot and most dropped in their tracks. Overall shot 10 animals with the .308 and all were one shot kills. I think the TSX and A Frame are both great bullet options.

Pat

Pat - You are my kind of hunter. Deadly effective, lol. Nice shot on the Eland and the Buff. Well done. Your experience with your 308 was exactly the same as my own in Africa. I took five PG animals with mine and they were all one shot kills. I was using a 180g bonded bullet but not the Norma with A-Frames. I had purchased ten boxes of that particular ammo because I wanted to use A-Frames but for whatever reason, my little FN Browning struggled to stabilize them out past 100y (it was an older slow twist bbl). It shot well enough at 100y but at 200y the groups were 2-3x larger than my best load and at 300y was more like a shotgun. I still have 5-6 boxes of the Norma 308 ammo using the 180g A-Frames. If you want some of it for future use, send me a PM and I will hook a brother up. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Short of hunting with both Swift and Barnes myself, hearing from guys like you helps me to build confidence in these loads. I am not taking the 308 next year. Instead, I have been setting up a 30-06 with a modern scope to be able to shoot longer ranges on PG in Free State since we will be hunting there for 2-3 days during our Limpopo trip. I could have swapped scopes on the 308 but decided that getting another rifle would be more fun. The 30-06 shoots the Barnes TTSX and the Swift Sciroccos both 180g equally well.

 

[Philip Glass]

I am looking for input from a broad spectrum of this forum since it contains experienced PH's and Hunters alike. I am booked to hunt Cape Buffalo next year in 2025 and have been testing loads and plan to settle on that this fall in time to allow more practice and tuning with my chosen loads. I am not reloading for a variety of reasons and will work with factory loads. I will be using a 375HH CRF rifle. I thought I had settled on 300g Swift A-Frame with a pair of Woodleigh Hydro cup point solids in the bottom of the mag in event of a charge. But recent results by my PH and another client has given me cause for at least reconsideration. For reference, all three loads shoot to the same POI and all are very accurate in my rifle. When I take the trouble to shoot them at 100y off of the bench, they all shoot under 1" groups and more often than not those groups are closer to 1/2". We will not shoot at buff further than 100y away. In fact the ideal range should be 70-80y for the first shot. That is close enough for max impact while being far enough to allow time for at least two more shots by me should the animal want to charge and would also allow enough time for the PH to get in a pair of shots if needed. My rifle holds 4 rounds but if loaded carefully, you can get one in the chamber with four in the mag for a total of five.

Please read on and then offer your experiences.

I believe in always trying to learn more all the time when it comes to shooting, hunting, bullet performance, etc. My own experience is most important but it is more efficient to learn what we can from others. Until recently, I had never hunted with Barnes or Swift bullets. In North America, for most game those heavy bullets were just not needed. So, my experience was very limited. Most of my larger game were taken with 308 using 165g Nosler BT's or with 270 using 130g BT's. They worked so well, that I never needed much more.

In Africa on a recent PG safari, I took five animals with a 308 loaded with Fusion 180g bonded bullets and they were like hunting with Thor's Hammer. One shot and DRT in every case. I was uber impressed with them. I took one larger beast with a 375HH loaded with 300g TSX bullets and it did fine but also required three shots to finish it. Yeah the first shot killed it but it ran a short distance and then wallowed around until I could finish the job. Effective but less of a hammer than the smaller, faster 308.

My PH in Africa posted the pic below this morning from a client hunt on his reserve in SA. It was a particular Cape Buffalo bull that had a "Bad Attitude". I knew this bull having encountered him with a small herd of others while hunting plains game this summer at the same place. He called him a "Cheeky Bastid", lol. I was scheduled to hunt Cape Buffalo next year with him. This bull trotted forward to guard his herd from us when we got a bit too close. When he showed me this bull, I asked him about hunting for it next year? He said that unfortunately it had a date with another client later this year. A few days ago, the client dropped that bull with a 375HH. Since, I planned to likely use the same caliber on my hunt, I was asking him this morning which bullet was used and how well did it perform? I was pleased to learn that the client used a 375 and two of my Barnes 375HH loads that I had left with him this summer when I went home. I told him then, that he could use as much of them as he wanted, as long as he saved me a few for my buff hunt. I was very pleased to hear him report that the Barnes TSX was likely the most effective bullet on Buffalo that he had ever witnessed. He was even thinking about using them in his backup rifle in the future.

I have never had much experience hunting with these copper only bullets and was having trouble getting comfortable with them. My rifle shoots them great but I had the opinion that they are slow to expand and as such were slow to dump energy into the target. Perhaps that is by design? If you have hunted with these, please comment and share your results. Especially on Buffalo, but other results would apply as well.

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You are on the right track with either bullet. I have hunted with TXS in countless calibers and many different hunting scenarios. I could tell so many stories! It is my go to but if I had to choose a second option it would be AFrame. Best of luck!

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I agree with @Challer both are good. I wouldn’t overthink it.
I personally favor barnes and have used them in the .375. They haven’t exited on multiple buffalo, giraffe, hippo and eland.
They usually exit on PG.

Buy some cheap .375 ammo and practice a lot. Bring as much of the good stuff as you can to Africa and hunt everything with the .375.
If you are hunting buffalo in thicker brush, you probably won’t get a second shot. So practice until you can’t miss!

Thx brother. I hear you loud and clear and am all about the practice, practice, practice thing. I am a former National Champion precision rifleman but hunting skills are different like shooting from sticks, and acquiring your sight picture quickly. I do go about my prep however, much the same way as I do competition. I try to shoot often using the techniques needed in the field and try to put some form of time pressure on myself. I test ammo and then refine the DOPE and then test it in various temperatures that closely replicate those in Africa. Nothing beats hunting experience but those opportunities are limited. Most of the shots in Limpopo were 200y or less. Often much less. This year the ranges ran: 202y, 180y, 160y, 70y, 60y, 20y. For the Free State portion of the trip next year, I was told to expect shots in the 200-400y range. Reality will likely be more like 100-300y me thinks but I will prep for everything. To me all of the prep and planning and practice and testing is much of the fun of the hunt. I will prep for a year and then hunt for 10days. The hunt is the cherry on top.

I do use cheap ammo for my early practice but as we get closer to time of the hunt, I will transition to only my hunting loads so that by hunt time, my confidence with each rifle is as high as possible. I see hunting videos of USA hunters and others in Africa who show up so ill prepared that it is embarrassing. I watched one last night. Several American couples were hunting in Limpopo. The main couple for whom the hunt video was made arrived. The wife had decided she would hunt some plains game. The PH's had to spend much of the first day teaching her how to handle and shoot a rifle. Even so, she was lacking any proper gun safety skills and had to be told to keep her finger off the trigger when not shooting and was seen sweeping her muzzle across the back of her PH multiple times. I cringe when I see that being a range safety officer. At least wife was a good shot. All of her critters dropped in their tracks (maybe she was not so good and shot high hitting the spine?) The Husband was worse. He shot poorly at the test range with his 300wm and worse in the field. Missed one animal completely and wounded the others forcing long, protracted stalks on each of them. They did recover and finish each one on the video but it made me wonder how many were shot and lost? Why would a hunter spend the coin and time to come to Africa less than fully prepared? It was not a good look. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

You are on the right track with either bullet. I have hunted with TXS in countless calibers and many different hunting scenarios. I could tell so many stories! It is my go to but if I had to choose a second option it would be AFrame. Best of luck!

PG - Please share some of those stories. Good, bad or ugly. We all benefit from your experiences that way. A wise man once said, "Wisdom is hard to acquire, and yet remains worthless until it is shared. Blessed is the wise man who shares his wisdom with others."

 

[Philip Glass]

PG - Please share some of those stories. Good, bad or ugly. We all benefit from your experiences that way. A wise man once said, "Wisdom is hard to acquire, and yet remains worthless until it is shared. Blessed is the wise man who shares his wisdom with others."

The most recent story was Alaska where my .300 Win with a 180g TTSX hit a twig on the way to my moose. The bullet tumbled a bit and went in like I had hit him with a big spear. It was a huge and of course abnormal entry wound. That hard bullet did him in even though it was tumbling. He went maybe 5 yards. In contrast I had the chance to see the the Hornady CX in action on not only the AK hunt (other hunters) but also a recent Addax hunt. THe recovered CX bullets were fine but had little expansion in both cases.
Most of the TSX I've recovered have been perfect but some on big animals with heavy bone do lose some petals. This is after they have done the job. What I've seen is that I can shoot a small animal with a TSX without tearing it up (ie Dik Dik with the .300) while also efficiently taking down large animals. I am sure I'll miss some but I have hunted with TSX (or TTSX) in 5.56, 7mm Mag, .300, .375, .450/400, & .470 all with excellent results.
We are fortunate to have so many premium bullets available to us. Barnes is just one that I perceive to be at the top.

 

[dogcat1]

I have used both in a .375 HH and cannot tell any difference. Same with Partitions except that the Partition tends to fragment more. They all leave a big, raged hole.

 

[UpNorthMI]

My son and I used the 300gn Barnes TSX ammo in .375 H&H on a buffalo cow hunt this summer, we had 3 one shot kills, 2 were shot at 50-60 yards, these bullets passed through, I shot a buffalo cow at about 220 yards after trying to get a shot at her all morning, the bullet was found just under the skin on the far side, the expansion was OK but not like other rounds shot at a closer range. That buffalo cow travelled 30 yards and was DRT.

Overall we are very happy with the Barnes TSX and will stick with them as the A frames have been very difficult to obtain. The accuracy in our Blaser R8 rifles of the Barnes TSX ammo was excellent.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Barnes TSX. 300 or 350 Grain.

I used 350 Grain Barnes TSX on this Buff. He went straight down…

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Thx guys. What is the difference between the TSX and the TTSX. I have some of both. I know the TTSX has the little polymer ballistic tip, but are there any other changes to make them expand faster or not?

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Thx guys. What is the difference between the TSX and the TTSX. I have some of both. I know the TTSX has the little polymer ballistic tip, but are there any other changes to make them expand faster or not?

TTSX advantage of quicker expansion and better B.C. Otherwise, very similar bullets…

 

[revturbo9967]

I killed my buff with the 300 gr tsx. Bullet performance between the two is negligible from what I have read. I believe a larger caliber has more weight with killing performance vs comparing these two 375 bullets

 

[sgt_zim]

The one thing that may drive your decision is bullet availability. Swift is just unobtanium.

IMO, North Fork is the best of both worlds - copper instead of gilding metal with a bonded lead core in the nose, solid copper base. The driving bands on them are supposed to reduce starting pressure similar to Hammer bullets.

I'm a total A-Frame fanboi, but given that I can't get them, I'll ultimately be doing LD with North Forks for the new 375 H&H.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

The one thing that may drive your decision is bullet availability. Swift is just unobtanium.

IMO, North Fork is the best of both worlds - copper instead of gilding metal with a bonded lead core in the nose, solid copper base. The driving bands on them are supposed to reduce starting pressure similar to Hammer bullets.

I'm a total A-Frame fanboi, but given that I can't get them, I'll ultimately be doing LD with North Forks for the new 375 H&H.

I already have in hand both the Swift A-Frames and the Barnes TSX. While I could use other bullets, these are the two options that I am seeking to choose between since they both shoot equally well in my rifle. My dilemma from the beginning was that I had little to no experience hunting with these heavily constructed bullets since we do not need such for most North American game and I was wanting to understand the relative differences between the two.

From what I have gleaned so far: Swift A-Frame when compared to the Barnes TSX may be prone to expanding more rapidly, and possibly expanding a bit more as well as shedding some of its weight and is less likely to fully penetrate a Buffalo. Often is found under the hide on the opposite side. Barnes TSX on the other hand is going to expand a bit more slowly and penetrate deeper and is more likely to result in a thru and thru shot. The TSX will expand less at longer ranges but penetrate about the same at all reasonable DG ranges 25-100y and will retain most if not all of its weight but can shed one or more of the four petals if impacting larger bones. Both can be expected to expand to about 2x and both will do the job. Swift is a quality soft point while Barnes is more like an enhanced solid. I get the felling that all things being equal, the A-Frame might be more likely to dump more energy into the tgt. That is my summary of the two based on comments from all of the guys on this thread and others.

 

[Dinsdale]

Fwiw, I shoot 300gr a frames and 300gr woodliegh round nose solids in my 375hh. I'm over 100 plains game, duiker to eland, and a couple of buffalo with the swifts and really can't justify trying anything else. In all those shots I have just a handful of recovered bullets and those look like the ad pics. Very very few 2nd shots needed. And I have an ample supply for the rest of my hunting career.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Do you have a place to shoot pigs? Go shoot a few and compare for yourself… That’s how I got to Barnes TSX from Accubond and Partitions (among others). Trying them and observation will give you the firsthand feedback you need. Plus, you’ll have plenty of sausage for Thanksgiving and Christmas!

I shoot everything with Barnes TSX. Elk, deer, antelope, pigs, coyotes and all PG… I have A frames, but in 450, and I haven’t used them yet.

 

[sgt_zim]

I already have in hand both the Swift A-Frames and the Barnes TSX. While I could use other bullets, these are the two options that I am seeking to choose between since they both shoot equally well in my rifle. My dilemma from the beginning was that I had little to no experience hunting with these heavily constructed bullets since we do not need such for most North American game and I was wanting to understand the relative differences between the two.

From what I have gleaned so far: Swift A-Frame when compared to the Barnes TSX may be prone to expanding more rapidly, and possibly expanding a bit more as well as shedding some of its weight and is less likely to fully penetrate a Buffalo. Often is found under the hide on the opposite side. Barnes TSX on the other hand is going to expand a bit more slowly and penetrate deeper and is more likely to result in a thru and thru shot. The TSX will expand less at longer ranges but penetrate about the same at all reasonable DG ranges 25-100y and will retain most if not all of its weight but can shed one or more of the four petals if impacting larger bones. Both can be expected to expand to about 2x and both will do the job. Swift is a quality soft point while Barnes is more like an enhanced solid. I get the felling that all things being equal, the A-Frame might be more likely to dump more energy into the tgt. That is my summary of the two based on comments from all of the guys on this thread and others.

Fair enough, I guess I had forgotten you already have A-Frames in hand.

Wouldn't the idea of "energy dumping" make the A Frame superior? I heard Doctari assert it's 100% about tissue destruction and hydrostatic shock, which lines up with the view I've held for quite a long time.

FWIW, the shot on my cow a couple months back was a raking shot (not intentionally, she turned as I was pulling the trigger), entry just in front of the rumen on the left side. That 286 gr A Frame penetrated about 4' and lodged in the offside shoulder. I imagine if she hadn't turned and the bullet had gone where I was originally aiming, I'd have found 2 wounds. Can't remember if I've already mentioned it or not, but my load is at 2475 fps, so 375 H&H territory.

Trying to remember which PH I heard talking about 9.3 vs 375 (a penetration discussion), may have been Robertson, saying he preferred the 9.3 because of the lower probability of a bullet exiting and hitting another buff.

Anyway, I think we're straining at gnats. Both bullets have a stellar history on cape buffalo.

 

[Grant Jones]

A-frame has worked for me in downing 6 cape buffalo. Not lost a one. Won't use anything else in my Sauer 202 375 H&H.