Barnes TSX vs Swift A-Frame on Buffalo

[375Fox]

Fair enough, I guess I had forgotten you already have A-Frames in hand.

Wouldn't the idea of "energy dumping" make the A Frame superior? I heard Doctari assert it's 100% about tissue destruction and hydrostatic shock, which lines up with the view I've held for quite a long time.

FWIW, the shot on my cow a couple months back was a raking shot (not intentionally, she turned as I was pulling the trigger), entry just in front of the rumen on the left side. That 286 gr A Frame penetrated about 4' and lodged in the offside shoulder. I imagine if she hadn't turned and the bullet had gone where I was originally aiming, I'd have found 2 wounds. Can't remember if I've already mentioned it or not, but my load is at 2475 fps, so 375 H&H territory.

Trying to remember which PH I heard talking about 9.3 vs 375 (a penetration discussion), may have been Robertson, saying he preferred the 9.3 because of the lower probability of a bullet exiting and hitting another buff.

Anyway, I think we're straining at gnats. Both bullets have a stellar history on cape buffalo.

Even though you got deep penetration with your 286 gr swift, I still wouldn’t expect an exit had it been a broadside shot if it fully mushroomed. I’d really love to be able to see a slow motion camera of it but I’ve found 375 300 gr swift and trophy bonded bear claw (very similar mushroom) on broadside shots on plains game down to 30 yards on skin on opposite side that I didn’t expect to find. I would think the skin must act something like an elastic when it stops the bullet protruding out before coming back on certain shots. I also think the energy theory adds little value in this case between these two bullets. Even if the TSX exits. It will have lost nearly all its velocity, so nearly all its energy was put into the animal and most of it early in the wound channel. Energy is 0.5*mass*velocity squared. The amount put into an animal is the difference on bullet entry and bullet exit (or stop). But I do think there is a lot of value in not exiting hunting buffalo. Just a lot safer hunting in a herd. I don’t remember any discussion about penetration between a 9.3 and 375 but in his podcasts Kevin Robertson like the 9.3 as a client rental rifle because very mild recoil. I can’t recall any other reason.

 

[sgt_zim]

Even though you got deep penetration with your 286 gr swift, I still wouldn’t expect an exit had it been a broadside shot if it fully mushroomed. I’d really love to be able to see a slow motion camera of it but I’ve found 375 300 gr swift and trophy bonded bear claw (very similar mushroom) on broadside shots on plains game down to 30 yards on skin on opposite side that I didn’t expect to find. I would think the skin must act something like an elastic when it stops the bullet protruding out before coming back on certain shots. I also think the energy theory adds little value in this case between these two bullets. Even if the TSX exits. It will have lost nearly all its velocity, so nearly all its energy was put into the animal and most of it early in the wound channel. Energy is 0.5*mass*velocity squared. The amount put into an animal is the difference on bullet entry and bullet exit (or stop). But I do think there is a lot of value in not exiting hunting buffalo. Just a lot safer hunting in a herd. I don’t remember any discussion about penetration between a 9.3 and 375 but in his podcasts Kevin Robertson like the 9.3 as a client rental rifle because very mild recoil. I can’t recall any other reason.

I honestly don't remember who I was listening to, been listening to a lot of him lately, maybe I'm confusing him with somebody else. Too bad @doctari505 isn't still hanging around to chime in.

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[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

@JG26Irish_2

I shoot both Barnes and Swift out of different calibers, and both have exceptionally good bullets. I have a 375H&H, which I load with Swift A frames. It has successfully killed many buff with a bullet yet to fail. Weight retention averaged 90%, with the best being 96% and the worst being 85%. The picture shows all swift bullets from my 375H&H recovered from Buffalo.

Barnes n 375 I cannot comment on, but what I have seen in the past is that with Barnes tsx bullets out of my 7x57 sometimes does not leave a good blood trail.

All the best

 

[Lance Hopper]

I apologize First, as I did not read the entire thread, so I am not sure if this recommendation has already been made. Please do not look past Cutting Edge bullets as an option. In my mind for dangerous game they are the most superior bullet on the market, bar none. I have been loading this bullet for a buddy of mine who has killed multiple buffalo and elephant with Cutting Edge bullets. 450 nitro express. Exceptionally light for caliber bullets. .295gr. “Softs”, and 325gr. Solids. Very few recovered. Personally, I am of the Camp that believes the bullet should make two holes. 1 in, one out. As a personal testimony, the last deer, I shot with my 222 Remington with a 40 grain, Cutting Edge maximus, I hit the deer in the shoulder blade at a quartering too,angle shot. The bullet exited behind the last rib on the offside. The deer went about 20 yards, wobbled, and fell over dead. I know it’s not dangerous game experience with this particular bullet, but the personal experience I have with my friends 450 nitro Express with the ammo I have loaded for him is unquestionable.

 

[Piet-Vis]

I recently bought a few boxes of Norma Ammo loaded with 270 grain TSX.
I most lly use my 375 for problem animal control as I though the lighter 270 grain bullet would give me a bit for reach for crocs and hippos thst are not always obliging to stand hear.
I used my 375 for my recent Eland and Sable hunt. Neither bullet fully penetrated, and neither "flowered" well. The bullet in the left was retrieved from the Sable.
On Tuesday I was as called to attend to a Hippo that was responsible for the death of two villagers. I shot it at 80m on the ear, with the animal standing dead square. I was flabbergasted to find that the 375 did not fully penetrate the skull. The villagers openened the scull with a axe, and found the bullet, not underneath the opposite skin, but only having penetrated 3/4 through. I guess that it lost more than 50% of its weight.
I am NOT taking a 270 grain TSX on a DG hunt again!