Death of Zimbabwe’s Best-Loved Lion Ignites Debate on Sport Hunting

[Bsums]

The comments on the article are very sickening. Many of them are about murder or injury to the hunter/guides.

 

[Diamondhitch]

The comments on the article are very sickening. Many of them are about murder or injury to the hunter/guides.

Just ban guns and then those wackos wont be able to act on their hateful blood lust, er... wait a minute I think that was what they said about us...

 

[duckman90]

I don't see how they could prosecute the Spanish guy if he fallowed all of the laws.

 

[Pheroze]

In the video above the professional hunter says the kill is the easiest part, and the other person mentions a 7 year old child who killed a warthog.



But the vast majority of people who live in cities do not enjoy it. Most people don't feel the need to hunt animals, and don't enjoy watching animals die. Most people today don't want to kill animals; that's why we have automated slaughter houses. We enjoy the meat but don't personally want to inflict pain to the animals (at least most of us don't). Sure, every human used to hunt and gather to survive, but now people don't need to do that.

Therefore it can be concluded that, for some reason, only some people still want to hunt/kill. I tried to ask why, and tried to construct a logical reason on why photography is very similar to hunting (excluding the killing), and therefore the killing part must have some special significance to you.

I'm not judging anyone. I'm trying to find the underlying reason for why some people enjoy killing. That's what I mean when I try to get in the mind of a hunter.

I don't agree with the inference you have drawn. The correct inference is that those who prefer factory farming prefer to live in a state of virtual reality. Not taking ownership of the grim reality that is a carnivore/omnivore is living in a falsehood. The real question is not why do people hunt, it is why do nonhunters hate hunters? What is it about the actions of a hunter that the anti's fear? Is it that they cannot accept that the falsehood they live in, the delusion that no animals were hurt in the making of this dinner, falls apart when they see a hunter? The real question is why is it OK to lie to yourself when you should acknowledge the fact that you have taken a life in order to have eaten. A hunter does not "enjoy" killing. A hunter just does not hide from the truth of the situation. By embracing the truth we are free to create an industry that benefits animals rather than support an industry as disgusting as factory farming.

 

[siml]

Difference between hunting and no hunting.

 

[James Lizamore]

I don't agree with the inference you have drawn. The correct inference is that those who prefer factory farming prefer to live in a state of virtual reality. Not taking ownership of the grim reality that is a carnivore/omnivore is living in a falsehood. The real question is not why do people hunt, it is why do nonhunters hate hunters? What is it about the actions of a hunter that the anti's fear? Is it that they cannot accept that the falsehood they live in, the delusion that no animals were hurt in the making of this dinner, falls apart when they see a hunter? The real question is why is it OK to lie to yourself when you should acknowledge the fact that you have taken a life in order to have eaten. A hunter does not "enjoy" killing. A hunter just does not hide from the truth of the situation. By embracing the truth we are free to create an industry that benefits animals rather than support an industry as disgusting as factory farming.

Could not been said in any better way. Well done

 

[ScottG]

They don't tell the whole story of Kenya. How many animals either starved or died of thirst due to over population. They only tell the story as of today. How grim was it for many years for the animals they decided to let die. They knew what was going to happen!!!

 

[Kudurifle]

I just read the article on CNN. I am not sure what it was they did that was illegal. As a former prosecutor, I never make accusations until all of the evidence is known. Neither will I defend something without that information. The media doesn't, as a rule, share my philosophy.

 

[Vevew]

The hunt has been declared illegal.
Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

Theo Bronkhorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris,
is facing criminal charges for allegedly killing a collared lion on
Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015

All persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges.

Both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to
justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt.​

 

[IdaRam]

I don't agree with the inference you have drawn. The correct inference is that those who prefer factory farming prefer to live in a state of virtual reality. Not taking ownership of the grim reality that is a carnivore/omnivore is living in a falsehood. The real question is not why do people hunt, it is why do nonhunters hate hunters? What is it about the actions of a hunter that the anti's fear? Is it that they cannot accept that the falsehood they live in, the delusion that no animals were hurt in the making of this dinner, falls apart when they see a hunter? The real question is why is it OK to lie to yourself when you should acknowledge the fact that you have taken a life in order to have eaten. A hunter does not "enjoy" killing. A hunter just does not hide from the truth of the situation. By embracing the truth we are free to create an industry that benefits animals rather than support an industry as disgusting as factory farming.

Spot on and very well said

 

[LivingTheDream]

This going to have to be played out in court. I read the article and some of the numbers are skewed (the lion tagging numbers don't mention those poached in snares and also don't give the dates), a few of the north america animals are slightly off. Also the PH says they have/had a permit and Zimbabwe is saying they don't. I understand the poaching charge especially if they don't have a permit but if they do have the permit is this charge just to calm the masses? The reporting that is being done on this incident has been horrific.

 

[Red Leg]

The hunt has been declared illegal.
Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

Theo Bronkhorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris,
is facing criminal charges for allegedly killing a collared lion on
Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015

All persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges.

Both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to
justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt.​

This article is now posted on the Drudge Report as well. I guess I am truly of another generation, but why anyone posts anything about their private life on the web is beyond my comprehension.

 

[JustinC]

Hehe. Ricky Gervais seems to focus on the moral issues of trophy hunting. He doesn't really come from a scientific point of view.
While I do agree with him that it is weird for someone to enjoy killing animals, I don't think arguing about morals is going to lead anywhere. It's like a debate between atheists and Christians about the existence of God; pointless because neither side will change their mind. Still, I'd like to know why you enjoy it (hunting/killing).

In this short clip a professional hunter says "Some people enjoy killing; some people don't":
(from 2:05 forward)

As a non-hunter it is very difficult to get in the mind of a hunter. Can any of you explain why you enjoy it? And tell which is more important; that you get to fire the killing bullet/arrow or that you get to keep the trophy?

Sir,

Words are cheap and you will probably never understand hunting from your emotional point of view without putting yourself in the situation....

If you are indeed interested in understanding hunting and what it entails, I would be happy to host you on a 7 day African safari where you can experience for yourself what the appeal is and the way of life we as hunters are able to appreciate first hand.

Looking forward to hearing from you...

Regards

 

[siml]

I am truly gob smacked.....just crazy!!

 

[Big5]

This going to have to be played out in court. I read the article and some of the numbers are skewed (the lion tagging numbers don't mention those poached in snares and also don't give the dates), a few of the north america animals are slightly off. Also the PH says they have/had a permit and Zimbabwe is saying they don't. I understand the poaching charge especially if they don't have a permit but if they do have the permit is this charge just to calm the masses? The reporting that is being done on this incident has been horrific.

I agree. So far all the media attention about the incident seems to have been created with the express purpose of promoting an emotional and anti hunting response rather than to portray the facts (no surprise).

There is also much ambiguity about whether or not a valid hunting license and lion permit exists. By all accounts the lion was not killed within the park boundary so the existense of that paperwork seems to be a major key to the legality.

 

[brushmore]

I've read a couple of articles on this and still can't figure out if this hunt was legit. It does sound like it was hunted on private land and there probably was a permit. So what I am wondering are there any issues with hunting a collared lion?

 

[Vevew]

I don't agree with the inference you have drawn. The correct inference is that those who prefer factory farming prefer to live in a state of virtual reality. Not taking ownership of the grim reality that is a carnivore/omnivore is living in a falsehood. The real question is not why do people hunt, it is why do nonhunters hate hunters? What is it about the actions of a hunter that the anti's fear? Is it that they cannot accept that the falsehood they live in, the delusion that no animals were hurt in the making of this dinner, falls apart when they see a hunter? The real question is why is it OK to lie to yourself when you should acknowledge the fact that you have taken a life in order to have eaten. A hunter does not "enjoy" killing. A hunter just does not hide from the truth of the situation. By embracing the truth we are free to create an industry that benefits animals rather than support an industry as disgusting as factory farming.

The food/dinner argument doesn't seem very convenient when we are talking about lion hunting. Most hunters say that they are giving the meat away to the locals.
Trophy hunters simply don't go hunting lions in order to feed their own bellies, right?

Factory farming is a necessity in the modern world, because there is no other way to feed this enormous horde of 7 billion people (if we want to continue to eat meat).
Making all meat and eggs truly free-range would require millions of times more land area. It simply isn't possible. Sure, the animals in farms live a life of horror, but most people don't care about the ethical arguments. They want the meat.

And so, hunters can't gain any moral high ground, because only a tiny fraction of the human population can hunt for food at any given moment without upsetting the balance of nature. If the majority of the human population wanted and started to hunt for food, there wouldn't be enough animals for them.

Sir,
If you are indeed interested in understanding hunting and what it entails, I would be happy to host you on a 7 day African safari where you can experience for yourself what the appeal is and the way of life we as hunters are able to appreciate first hand.

Looking forward to hearing from you...

Regards

Thanks for the offer, but I don't have any money (not even enough to travel to Africa right now). But sure, in the future I'd really like to experience walking among the wildlife and see the animals close up at eye level. But I really wouldn't want to kill any of the majestic African mammals. Perhaps I will never understand why anyone would hunt because I'm unwilling to kill. Perhaps someday I can join a hunting expedition as an observer.

 

[Big5]

This article is now posted on the Drudge Report as well. I guess I am truly of another generation, but why anyone posts anything about their private life on the web is beyond my comprehension.

. . . . yep, why anyone would want to hang their laundry out on the web is way beyond my comprehension as well.

 

[JustinC]

Thanks for the offer, but I don't have any money (not even enough to travel to Africa right now). But sure, in the future I'd really like to experience walking among the wildlife and see the animals close up at eye level. But I really wouldn't want to kill any of the majestic African mammals. Perhaps I will never understand why anyone would hunt because I'm unwilling to kill. Perhaps someday I can join a hunting expedition as an observer.

I certainly hope that you are able to experience a true hunt sometime during your life time...

I would just like to point out two things (and they have probably already been raised) but are important to realize when trying to comprehend hunting in general:

1) Most hunters are NOT wealthy people and are required to save for years before they are able to go on such a trip but it is their choice and the saving grace of our wildlife. If an animal hasn't got any value, it will soon loose its place in the greater scheme of things (apart from Zoos and National parks)
2) All life is equal to a true hunter , whether it be a Warthog or Lion. So the emotional rational around hunting majestic animals is lost in translation when talking to most hunters.

The offer stands....

Regards

 

[Big5]

. . . All life is equal to a true hunter , whether it be a Warthog or Lion. So the emotional rational around hunting majestic animals is lost in translation when talking to most hunters.

Very well said.