SOUTH AFRICA: Question For Tootabi Hunting Safaris

[BRICKBURN]

Tootabi means sweet honey. It is from French origin. It is an area of around 10000 morgen in the old days. It is situated in the Eastern Cape of South Africa, an hour's drive north of Port Elizabeth. It lies down a valley with the Zuurberg mountain the northern boundary and ends at the Bushman's river in the East.

I grew up here and the Du Preez family has been land owners since the mid 1800's here.

Nothing of great importance has ever happened here. After hunting as a freelance ph for many years I have decided to start my own hunting company. It was a name that nobody used so I thought it would make sense to use this name where I grew up and love so much.

Beans, Thanks for the explanation. So an area about 8500 hectares from my conversion chart.

How many farms are within the area?

 

[daved]

A simple outfitters no. Will resolve all this.
Mine is HC22/2012EC my professional hunters license is PH74/2012EC
What's yours ? Simple.
Waiting on an e-mail from Dept. of environmental affairs on this issue.

 

[Beans]

Beans, Thanks for the explanation. So an area about 8500 hectares from my conversion chart.

How many farms are within the area?

Hi Brickburn

That is about right.

I might be under correction. I have discussed it with my father and as far as we know the following farms is part of Tootabi. These all have title deeds as section so and so of Tootabi.
Bluegum Hill, Tootabi, Doornhoek, Glen Rollo and De Poort are farms that make out Tootabi. All of the above farms was in Du Preez posession from 12 July 1867.

It was purchased from the government on 12 July 1867 by a Du Preez.

Klein Tootabi (means small) belongs to Loodt's father. It was purchased about 30 years ago by grandfather. I do not know what the title deed for that property is.

The Buchner family farm is called Kleinhoek and is a part of Doornkloof.

I would like to point out that he is also advertising the following of facebook. I quote

With years is the safari industry you can rest assured you are in safe hands......
We pride ourselves on our dedicated team of professional hunters, trackers, skinners and camp staff and office personnel .....
The hunting region is situated in the Tootabi Game Reserve.... ( there is no such a place, I live here and should know about it)
That was just to fill in to the whole picture. How can you have years of experience if you are not a registered outfitter or ph? I know this as mr Jaap Pienaar told me so, that we was still needing documents from Loodt last week. He did not mention any 3 month permit. His words to me was he does not have a permit yet and that Loodt has decided to do his PH course. Dave and I have asked mr Pienaar per email as to give us feedback on this matter. We will post this as soon as we get it.

If we are in the wrong we will apologize for what we have said.

There is a Cape Eland Translocation in Tootabi Game Reserve that he has a youtube clip. I question this as well. I have mentioned that I do not know of such a place.

All that Ferdi asked was if it was illegal to advertise without a outfitter license. It could have been short. Yes or No and a PM to him with a outfitters nr.

We are all awaiting a response later this week.

 

[billc]

Could he not call his parents place tootabi game reserve by name if he wants to or do you own that word tootabi.If he hired people who have been in the business for years do they lose there past history because they work for him now.The two PH's he has bring there trackers with them they not a dedicated team to now.As for the eland would it makes sense to just release them in to any were or again maybe that is his family's place.Time will tell about who is right and who is wrong soon enough

 

[mikejones]

Hi Boet.

Is it legal to advertise if YOU'RE not a licensed OUTFITTER.

Good luck with you're PH course..

Hi from Holland , interesting thread. I read the opening message and i have a question.

I have seen many booking agents on here and millions on the internet that represent hunting safaris in africa , does this mean they all are doing it illegally too ?

If yes i would say its silly because that is then basically also wrong for me to tell my fellow hunter here in Holland about a good deal i got in africa ? Thats also a form of advertising.

Its just a question , no fights please . Maybe i got the wrong message in this thread

regards Mike Jones

Holland

 

[billc]

I just asked someone that same question and i was told agents are legal to sell.The rule does not apply to them.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Agents are representatives in this case the marketed individuals outfitters permit for the relevant province/country should be produced upon request

My best always
.

 

[enysse]

WOW!!! Just happened to visit AH tonight and seen this post. I am a click away from accepting a Lioness and Copper Springbuck hunt with Loodt at Tootabi Hunting Safaris. He offered me a great deal on the Copper Springbuck to finish my slam from my posts on AH. Then I asked him about a lioness and again I got a great deal.

I am hunting Zim in August for Buff and thought I would add these hunts on my way back. I have my travel agent looking at rescheduling my flights to accommodate these hunts. NOW I am not sure if I should continue with these hunts.

I will keep a close watch on AH to see what else comes of this situation. I sure do not need the feds breathing down my neck for illegal harvest, transport etc.

WHAT SHALL I DO?

"A dream can be relived, again and again in Africa".

Lets just wait until we hear what his plan is. Brickburn or one of the outfitters should be able to tell if it's legit. Bad thing is since he's not involved with PHASA, you are trusting a verbal or written agreement that everything will be OK. To me that is recipe for disaster. Sure you can go to court but it will be a lose-lose proposition.

 

[tarbe]

Proverbs 18:17

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

I think we are all hoping for a quick and complete airing of the facts by all concerned.

For the record, I did not sign on for a hunt with Loodt because he was "cheap". I signed on because of his apparent desire to make happy clients.


Tim

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Hi from Holland , interesting thread. I read the opening message and i have a question.

I have seen many booking agents on here and millions on the internet that represent hunting safaris in africa , does this mean they all are doing it illegally too ?

If yes i would say its silly because that is then basically also wrong for me to tell my fellow hunter here in Holland about a good deal i got in africa ? Thats also a form of advertising.

Its just a question , no fights please . Maybe i got the wrong message in this thread

regards Mike Jones

Holland

Hi Mike

To try and answer your question. Agents don't require an outfitters license to sell hunts with a licensed outfitter. An outfitters license is obtained from Nature Consevation who do a detailed inspection of the applicants facilities and accommodation.

There are over 3000 licensed outfitters in SA and the licensing process is there to try and uphold a certain standard of hunting in SA. Ultimately it's there to protect the consumer / hunter and one of the tools to help the authorities in doing that is to prevent non-licensed persons from advertising to foreign clients. Kinda like a person impersonating a doctor advertising his medical services. I hope I've been able to explain it better.

 

[Beans]

Could he not call his parents place tootabi game reserve by name if he wants to or do you own that word tootabi.If he hired people who have been in the business for years do they lose there past history because they work for him now.The two PH's he has bring there trackers with them they not a dedicated team to now.As for the eland would it makes sense to just release them in to any were or again maybe that is his family's place.Time will tell about who is right and who is wrong soon enough

Dear billc

With all respect said. These questions are not pointed to you.

Let the man himself come forward and explain to us.

Myself, Dave and Ferdi has come forward to ask a question, we are being treated on this forum as the wrong party.

Kind regards

Beans

 

[Patrick R]

Zimbabwe Outfitters keep saying the same thing about South African Outfitters hunting in Zimbabwe.

yes, and with all do respect if PHASA have and can do something about them, then the whole industry will be better off! but that is another story...i have my personal / political opinion about Zimbabwe (and what a wonderful country...) Some SA outfitters are legit in Zimbabwe and most of them are not...good for them...BAD for me...why? Now, all SA outfitters are branded as crooks in the hunting fraternity...

Reputable hunting Farms were taken by force and now operate with so called black PH's...SA outfitters provide the 'money', taken by force property in Zimbabwe and now what a 'great area to hunt'... damn, what a bitter pill to shallow...i want clients to come to my country (SA) and enjoy what i have to offer them as good / better as what i can offer them...there is a difference between good honest marketing and aggressive marketing...the one can bit you in the ass someday...

 

[billc]

With all do respect this is not a hangem high site like the others out there that some of you have come from.Proof first and facts that back up points made in the post come first.If he would be guilty I will help hangem but till all the facts come out he is still ok in my eyes.People have made this a public issue so I will ask questions as I see fit.I plan on hunting with loodt so I have all the right to ask on this OPEN forum.You made some points and I ask if this would not more or less make sense if this was his thinking.Not to hard to answer really if you read my post again.You make it out like there is no reason what he said makes sense in any way or he was lying about having quality staff .Well I think I showed how what he said makes sense to me.Plus know were did I say you were the wrong party I just made some comments.You might not have been asking me a question but I was asking you one.Dont care to answer them thats ok.

 

[Beans]

With all do respect this is not a hangem high site like the others out there that some of you have come from.Proof first and facts that back up points made in the post come first.If he would be guilty I will help hangem but till all the facts come out he is still ok in my eyes.People have made this a public issue so I will ask questions as I see fit.I plan on hunting with loodt so I have all the right to ask on this OPEN forum.You made some points and I ask if this would not more or less make sense if this was his thinking.Not to hard to answer really if you read my post again.You make it out like there is no reason what he said makes sense in any way or he was lying about having quality staff .Well I think I showed how what he said makes sense to me.Plus know were did I say you were the wrong party I just made some comments.You might not have been asking me a question but I was asking you one.Dont care to answer them thats ok.

Dear billc

First you want me to answer your question then you said I should not care. I will then stick to your last decision as i do not know what you want.

From what you write in your post I get a feeling that you and Loodt have been in contact. I might be wrong and if I am I am sorry for making a false observation.

Let us give him time to respond of how he see this, then we take it from there.

Kind regards

Beans

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I agree Gerhard, let's see what he says and take it from there I believe this will be best for all involved.

My best always.

 

[billc]

I said I plan on hunting with loodt right in the post.Also said I was asking you a question but it was ok if you did not want to answer them.That would make it your choice if you did or not.Not me saying not to.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.......

All that Ferdi asked was if it was illegal to advertise without a outfitter license. It could have been short. Yes or No and a PM to him with a outfitters nr.

We are all awaiting a response later this week.

Beans, Ferdi asked this to a specific target Tootabi Hunting Safaris with the inference entailed therein.

"Is it legal to advertise if YOU'RE not a licensed OUTFITTER."

Which is easy to answer, no matter what the inference.
I sincerely doubt Ferdi has forgotten the answer to that question from his PH exam.

The inference obviously being that "you are advertising hunts illegally". Which Dave decided to post outright within this thread. He can obviously read between the lines to.


If DEA manages to get back to Dave perhaps they can shed some light on the matter.
As always, waiting to see what happens.

 

[spike.t]

:think: while we are waiting.... i wonder if loodt can sort a buff/ele hunt so i can use a 45-70..?????

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Now that is a "cheap" shot!! ()

My best always

 

[peras]

:think: while we are waiting.... i wonder if loodt can sort a buff/ele hunt so i can use a 45-70..?????

Sounds like you are interested in a "cheap" hunt!