Times Are Changing, Do We Change With Them

[Royal27]

I know most people are referring to FB, twitter, etc.
AH is social media!
How would you like a hunting report without pictures?
Pictures are part of the story.
We are a community.

I agree that AH is social media, but to me it is different. People come here because they want to talk hunting and to see the pictures. I don't think that we should stop sharing amongst those who want to see.

FB, twitter, etc is an "open forum" for all, many with different likes and beliefs. I don't know that "putting it out there" is necessary (again, I'm re-forming my opinion on this issue, not positive it will change). This should NOT be confused with hiding who and what we are. This can and should still be done, with no apology. But why turn some people off when we don't have to? In person I will tell anybody who will listen about Africa, but I only show pictures if they ask, or I ask if they'd like to see the animals. It is funny, I've never had anyone say they didn't want to see, but I think mainly because it is pretty obvious if they will be OK with it before that point.

 

[Royal27]

We need leadership. Leadership is not hiding in fear, lest someone find out what we really do. but that still leaves the question: Where is the leadership?

Exactly

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

A few drive by thoughts on latest posts:

1) @BRICKBURN, certainly the author has his own self interests. But then so does every outfitter or hunter for that matter.

2) @Royal27, FB need not necessarily be an open forum. This article was shared in a closed group. You need to be invited to that group and subsequently accepted into it by the group coordinator......yes I realize how elitist that just sounded....but point being is it doesn't have to be one way or another either completely hidden or completely open.

3) Perhaps a crazy idea, but in order to eliminate the members who are anti's in disguise from using pictures to our detriment, perhaps we have a minimum post count standard before pictures can be seen? Or some other filter on hunt reports where just being a member is not sufficient to gain access? Like I said perhaps crazy, but I want this to be an open discussion.

4) I don't want to hide nor do I that I'm a hunter. That said, I don't bring it up in every conversation that I may have on a given day. And in some circumstances I purposely do not bring it up as it's simply not an appropriate scenario to have that conversation. If it's brought up I certainly won't deny that I'm a hunter. If someone wants to jump me for that after they brought up the subject, I'm not going to back down from that fight. But neither am I going to pick that fight.

 

[enysse]

I agree 100% with you Hank2211!

I post pictures on AH, because this is African hunting website. If the anti's want to come here and play their games. We are going to fight back, because they don't belong here. I would love to say we educate and turn their thinking around but I don't believe that at all.

I will say from my perspective living in a large city in Wisconsin, a lot of people are against hunting. I keep my mouth shut about it and move on, because I don't want to lose my job.

 

[Royal27]

FB need not necessarily be an open forum

Agree - meant in the traditional friends, family, and co-workers definition of FB friends and posting under that definition.

 

[Wheels]

A few drive by thoughts on latest posts:

1) @BRICKBURN, certainly the author has his own self interests. But then so does every outfitter or hunter for that matter.

2) @Royal27, FB need not necessarily be an open forum. This article was shared in a closed group. You need to be invited to that group and subsequently accepted into it by the group coordinator......yes I realize how elitist that just sounded....but point being is it doesn't have to be one way or another either completely hidden or completely open.

3) Perhaps a crazy idea, but in order to eliminate the members who are anti's in disguise from using pictures to our detriment, perhaps we have a minimum post count standard before pictures can be seen? Or some other filter on hunt reports where just being a member is not sufficient to gain access? Like I said perhaps crazy, but I want this to be an open discussion.

4) I don't want to hide nor do I that I'm a hunter. That said, I don't bring it up in every conversation that I may have on a given day. And in some circumstances I purposely do not bring it up as it's simply not an appropriate scenario to have that conversation. If it's brought up I certainly won't deny that I'm a hunter. If someone wants to jump me for that after they brought up the subject, I'm not going to back down from that fight. But neither am I going to pick that fight.

Never thought of #3 before. It might be a great idea. Not sure how it meshes with the AH business model and the robots though.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

WHAT?!? HIDE OR DIE IS THIS THE MESSAGE?!? Should everyone just pretend that we are not hunters so that we can keep hunting? Should we have a secret hand signal or button that we wear so that we can recognize each other and then can feel free to speak about what we're passionate about and who we are? When did we become so fearful and weak? This is exactly what the anti want us to do , this is exactly their agenda, what the author of this post has prescribed is the recipe for the end of hunting as we know it.

Yes the world has changed and we must change with it but not in this way. I do agree that we need to come together with a united front and that we need to make a plan of action, but that is just it ACTION NOT INACTION. The biggest problem that I see is the reluctance of hunters, outfitters and big hunting organizations and websites to stand up and fight for our passion. The anti have organized and been aggressively attacking us on many fronts simultaneously and our stance has always been to not react or fight and they are eating our lunch.

We have big organizations like SCI, NRA, DSC and many others that have huge war chests but they do nothing to stand up for hunting and fight the antis, not on the ground, but in cyberspace. We must use some of that money to fund the future of hunting, we can not continue to sit back and be passive, we must fight their attacks not verbally but using the same tactics that they employ. We must disrupt them! We can no longer afford to take the high road, we need to get dirty.

Sometime it is the better choice to not engage but at this point we can see that this is a war of attrition and they are winning so look into your history books and see what we need to do, we need to hit back not hide or we will starve. We do not need to engage in petty arguments with fanatics on FB but fight back with our wallets because that is what they are using against us.

The organizations that we have been funding for a long time need to get together, set aside their differences and start to seriously fight for US and the future of hunting. We need to pressure these big clubs that are sitting on 100's of millions of OUR dollars in the name of "conservation" so that they start recognizing that hunters themselves are the ones who need the conservation the most.

They need to hire a political firm that aggressively investigates and exposes these groups for their spending practices and find any dirt on them that they can (and there is plenty). We need to sue and attack these anti groups and individual computer warriors on issues of defamation, death threats, hacking (Rowland Ward was down for months and there are many more examples like that), highjacking websites, spamming and copyright infringement and loss of income from anti attacks on individuals and companies that are legally existing and acting. They are picking us off and we are letting them. It is true they are winning because we are letting them! We are victims of our inaction and own making.

Aren't hunter the first to return to war torn countries, long before tourism. Aren't hunters the ones who will risk life and limb and disease to travel to remote places in the world seeking adventure and profound experiences in nature while at the same time sharing our wealth with those less fortunate? It takes bravery and moxxy to chase after dangerous game or wounded game…. why should we hide? Who have hunters become? Hunters have become the hunted! I would rather fight like a Lion than hide in a hole like worm. Hunters are the wolves not the sheep...

When I read something like this I think WOW, maybe the anti have won if they can chase us into a hole where we feel like we have to hide and pretend and act like hunting is our secret passion that is not socially acceptable, we are not pedophiles!

I think we should collectively change the words hunt, hunter and hunting… from now on we can use the words sizzle, sizzler and sizzling, everyone got that? Pretend that blood doesn't exist? How is that going to save hunting? No more trophy pictures? Act like we're all in the tourism industry? It'll be a big surprise when someone books some adventure travel only to realize once they get there that they have inadvertently booked a hunting safari but they got dazzled by all of those campfire and game pictures, with people sitting around having a glass of wine and laughing. At that point why not just go into the tourism industry and be done with hunting if you no longer have a taste for it! You have already got the set up, just put your gun away.

I can assure you that if the beef industry were to be attacked by the antis with videos of cows with sad eyes and sad background music playing from some famous musician to solicit donations the beef industry with hit back full force with a well though out PR and smear campaign. Why doesn't the hunting industry protect their interest like this?

I have so many things to say about this post but I guess the most important thing is WHY IS ANY HUNTER OR OUTFITTER ON FACEBOOK???? Facebook is as anti hunting as they come as far as businesses are concerned from the top management down. This social media giant has a very anti agenda and I know this from several personal experiences with them as well as what they have done to some unfortunate individuals that have been chosen to be made an example of and shamed virally while doing something perfectly legal.

The antis on social media will relentlessly feed anything that they can find until something takes off and it does not matter what. Every time something goes viral they use that to get donations and fund their organizations. We should be putting a spotlight on them showing who they are looking into their taxes and their lifestyle and their background and showing how little is going to anything but lining their pockets. The same kind of tactics that they use against hunters who dare to post their trophy pictures with their names attached.

I would not support or use FB or Intstagram. FB has done more harm to hunting than any website out there by far. They have enabled anti hunting groups, help them to persecute us, build their coffers and allowed them to use our media against us even copy righted material unless you are willing to sue them. Any hunter still using FB is enabling the antis in my opinion and opening yourself up to being used to further their agenda.

I can assure you that we are being attacked not just on the hunting front but the gun front as well. At least the NRA puts a lot of money and effort into fighting for those rights but I don't see the big hunting organizations doing the same. If you want to protect wildlife protect the hunters. Right now it's us hunters who need protection and as a result we will protect the wildlife!

I have never ranted on the site like this before! Sorry if this post is jumbled about but this has been on my mind for sometime and this letter just made me crazy. I see that the author is scared and has good intentions but I couldn't disagree with most of his ideas more.

I can assure you that @BRICKBURN and I have been on the front lines fighting the anti off on a regular, lately daily basis, and if we just let them and gave in to them AH would be long gone. AH would not be what it is today without hunters being passionate and sharing their love of hunting and their experiences. It would not be the same without the pictures and ,yes, some of them have blood, that is par for the course, it's hunting. If we remove the blood and the trophy pictures and the stories will the anti suddenly leave us alone? Never! They will have just gained some ground. Cleansing the image of hunting will not slow down this train down, it needs to be derailed.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

More ramblings....

While I do think there are some anti's that can be won over, thinking of the video that has been on here of the guy in Denmark, self ascribed bunny hugger, giving a speech on lion hunting. As I recall he went to Botswana and once his eyes were opened, he realized lion hunting was necessary to the overall health of the lions. So I think there are some who can be swayed not necessarily to be hunters themselves but to move away from their anti-hunting stance. That said, I do believe those are few and far between.

The real battle is for the non-hunters. Some 30 years ago or thereabouts before I had even started hunting, I can remember talking to my best bud in high school about hunting. We were at his house and both of us were quite eager to give it a go someday. Unfortunately neither of our dad's were into it, so no one to take us. But I can recall in the middle of all that, my buddy's mom chiming in. Miss Ginny as I called her grew up in rural Louisiana where hunting was a big part of the culture. She herself had no interest in hunting, but she also had no issue with it. But, I can recall her saying quite vividly how she did not care for the local yahoos to drive around with a dead deer in the back of their truck with the tailgate down. To her that was disrespectful to the animal. There was just no need to parade the animal that way showing off to all their buddies but also in front of anyone else like herself that couldn't care less and in fact found it offensive.

So in the world of instant access to people's photos, when we post photos of the animals we've taken is that the virtual world equivalent of parading our deer around town with the tailgate open?

 

[Wheels]

WHAT?!? HIDE OR DIE IS THIS THE MESSAGE?!? Should everyone just pretend that we are not hunters so that we can keep hunting? Should we have a secret hand signal or button that we wear so that we can recognize each other and then can feel free to speak about what we're passionate about and who we are? When did we become so fearful and weak? This is exactly what the anti want us to do , this is exactly their agenda, what the author of this post has prescribed is the recipe for the end of hunting as we know it.

Yes the world has changed and we must change with it but not in this way. I do agree that we need to come together with a united front and that we need to make a plan of action, but that is just it ACTION NOT INACTION. The biggest problem that I see is the reluctance of hunters, outfitters and big hunting organizations and websites to stand up and fight for our passion. The anti have organized and been aggressively attacking us on many fronts simultaneously and our stance has always been to not react or fight and they are eating our lunch.

We have big organizations like SCI, NRA, DSC and many others that have huge war chests but they do nothing to stand up for hunting and fight the antis, not on the ground, but in cyberspace. We must use some of that money to fund the future of hunting, we can not continue to sit back and be passive, we must fight their attacks not verbally but using the same tactics that they employ. We must disrupt them! We can no longer afford to take the high road, we need to get dirty.

Sometime it is the better choice to not engage but at this point we can see that this is a war of attrition and they are winning so look into your history books and see what we need to do, we need to hit back not hide or we will starve. We do not need to engage in petty arguments with fanatics on FB but fight back with our wallets because that is what they are using against us.

The organizations that we have been funding for a long time need to get together, set aside their differences and start to seriously fight for US and the future of hunting. We need to pressure these big clubs that are sitting on 100's of millions of OUR dollars in the name of "conservation" so that they start recognizing that hunters themselves are the ones who need the conservation the most.

They need to hire a political firm that aggressively investigates and exposes these groups for their spending practices and find any dirt on them that they can (and there is plenty). We need to sue and attack these anti groups and individual computer warriors on issues of defamation, death threats, hacking (Rowland Ward was down for months and there are many more examples like that), highjacking websites, spamming and copyright infringement and loss of income from anti attacks on individuals and companies that are legally existing and acting. They are picking us off and we are letting them. It is true they are winning because we are letting them! We are victims of our inaction and own making.

Aren't hunter the first to return to war torn countries, long before tourism. Aren't hunters the ones who will risk life and limb and disease to travel to remote places in the world seeking adventure and profound experiences in nature while at the same time sharing our wealth with those less fortunate? It takes bravery and moxxy to chase after dangerous game or wounded game…. why should we hide? Who have hunters become? Hunters have become the hunted! I would rather fight like a Lion than hide in a hole like worm. Hunters are the wolves not the sheep...

When I read something like this I think WOW, maybe the anti have won if they can chase us into a hole where we feel like we have to hide and pretend and act like hunting is our secret passion that is not socially acceptable, we are not pedophiles!

I think we should collectively change the words hunt, hunter and hunting… from now on we can use the words sizzle, sizzler and sizzling, everyone got that? Pretend that blood doesn't exist? How is that going to save hunting? No more trophy pictures? Act like we're all in the tourism industry? It'll be a big surprise when someone books some adventure travel only to realize once they get there that they have inadvertently booked a hunting safari but they got dazzled by all of those campfire and game pictures, with people sitting around having a glass of wine and laughing. At that point why not just go into the tourism industry and be done with hunting if you no longer have a taste for it! You have already got the set up, just put your gun away.

I can assure you that if the beef industry were to be attacked by the antis with videos of cows with sad eyes and sad background music playing from some famous musician to solicit donations the beef industry with hit back full force with a well though out PR and smear campaign. Why doesn't the hunting industry protect their interest like this?

I have so many things to say about this post but I guess the most important thing is WHY IS ANY HUNTER OR OUTFITTER ON FACEBOOK???? Facebook is as anti hunting as they come as far as businesses are concerned from the top management down. This social media giant has a very anti agenda and I know this from several personal experiences with them as well as what they have done to some unfortunate individuals that have been chosen to be made an example of and shamed virally while doing something perfectly legal.

The antis on social media will relentlessly feed anything that they can find until something takes off and it does not matter what. Every time something goes viral they use that to get donations and fund their organizations. We should be putting a spotlight on them showing who they are looking into their taxes and their lifestyle and their background and showing how little is going to anything but lining their pockets. The same kind of tactics that they use against hunters who dare to post their trophy pictures with their names attached.

I would not support or use FB or Intstagram. FB has done more harm to hunting than any website out there by far. They have enabled anti hunting groups, help them to persecute us, build their coffers and allowed them to use our media against us even copy righted material unless you are willing to sue them. Any hunter still using FB is enabling the antis in my opinion and opening yourself up to being used to further their agenda.

I can assure you that we are being attacked not just on the hunting front but the gun front as well. At least the NRA puts a lot of money and effort into fighting for those rights but I don't see the big hunting organizations doing the same. If you want to protect wildlife protect the hunters. Right now it's us hunters who need protection and as a result we will protect the wildlife!

I have never ranted on the site like this before! Sorry if this post is jumbled about but this has been on my mind for sometime and this letter just made me crazy. I see that the author is scared and has good intentions but I couldn't disagree with most of his ideas more.

I can assure you that @BRICKBURN and I have been on the front lines fighting the anti off on a regular, lately daily basis, and if we just let them and gave in to them AH would be long gone. AH would not be what it is today without hunters being passionate and sharing their love of hunting and their experiences. It would not be the same without the pictures and ,yes, some of them have blood, that is par for the course, it's hunting. If we remove the blood and the trophy pictures and the stories will the anti suddenly leave us alone? Never! They will have just gained some ground. Cleansing the image of hunting will not slow down this train down, it needs to be derailed.

Great post J.

Kind of makes me feel like I should delete the post I just made above yours.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I was writing my post about the time you posted yours Jerome, so I didn't see it until after my last one. First please don't think any of this thread or any of my comments are directed at you or Wayne.

I do wholeheartedly agree that SCI and DSC have not been effective at fighting the anti's. I do also believe we would do well to enlist the help of the NRA, their warchest is far bigger.

 

[enysse]

So in the world of instant access to people's photos, when we post photos of the animals we've taken is that the virtual world equivalent of parading our deer around town with the tailgate open?

For sure Phil, most people still believe that we only kill for "trophies" and we don't use the meat

 

[Royal27]

But I can recall in the middle of all that, my buddy's mom chiming in. Miss Ginny as I called her grew up in rural Louisiana where hunting was a big part of the culture. She herself had no interest in hunting, but she also had no issue with it. But, I can recall her saying quite vividly how she did not care for the local yahoos to drive around with a dead deer in the back of their truck with the tailgate down. To her that was disrespectful to the animal. There was just no need to parade the animal that way showing off to all their buddies but also in front of anyone else like herself that couldn't care less and in fact found it offensive.

So in the world of instant access to people's photos, when we post photos of the animals we've taken is that the virtual world equivalent of parading our deer around town with the tailgate open?

This is the point I was trying to get across. Your story does a much better job of it than I did.

 

[AB2506]

I wish I had an answer for this issue, but I don't. I guess my point is, I would suggest not offending those that do not want to see dead animals. If that means not posting on Facebook, or restricting access to your Photobucket account, I'm all for that. I question whether a lot of Youtube hunting videos don't do more harm than good? I think as a hunting community, we really need to clean up our act, not hide or apologize. We can tastefully promote our passion without immediately offending people so that their minds are closed before we even can get the message out.

SCI has recently hired a person(s) that sole job is to manage social media.

 

[enysse]

Jerome, I agree 1000%+ with you, that has to be one of the best post I have read in a while. Your perspective is the same as mine. I can't put it on paper like you but I agree with you.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

I was writing my post about the time you posted yours Jerome, so I didn't see it until after my last one. First please don't think any of this thread or any of my comments are directed at you or Wayne.

I do wholeheartedly agree that SCI and DSC have not been effective at fighting the anti's. I do also believe we would do well to enlist the help of the NRA, their warchest is far bigger.

Phil,
In no way do I think that anything you said was directed at me or Wayne. I know the quality of my post was incensed, but I actually think it is a great conversation and a necessary one. I am very passionate about hunting and I often avoid joining into conversations as to not unduly influence them, not that I probably would but I just want AH to have it's own voice, not mine. But I feel so strongly about this message being the wrong one that I could not stay quiet.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

I think these organizations have not been effective because they continue to take the PC, gentlemanly stance, but it's not working. They avoid addressing it, choosing to ignore the topic and in the meantime our opponents have been building their arsenals and are engaging in guerrilla warfare.

We can no longer afford to react to their slaps in the face with a peaceful smile. We need to engage in an offensive using legal but aggressive tactics and hit the organizations behind the attacks not the individual voices of 20-something undereducated masses on FB. Money makes the world go round and a directed effort to hinder their money making machines by hitting them one by one, picking them off just like they do with us.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Interesting article, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with the author. Hiding what we do, pretending we aren't doing it, not taking pictures of it, not talking about it, won't fool any of the antis or, I suggest, anyone else. Apart from no pictures, should we have hunting shows where no animals get hurt? Hunting stories where animals aren't killed?

The author's plan is a prescription for the ultimate end of hunting.

I don't deny that:

1. Hunters have an image problem.

2. A minority of our fraternity tend to do us a disservice, whether it be through stupid antics, stupid pictures or whatever.

3. We are not very adept when it comes to social media.

But the solution isn't to deny what we do. It's to get better at telling our story - and it's a very good story of conservation, of animals brought back from the brink of extinction, of the creation of livelihoods, of the feeding of people, etc. - on and through social media.

Broken record time again. We need to get together - all hunting organizations and hunting and hunting-related businesses - and pool our resources. Do what the antis do - hire the best, the very best, make a plan, and get our message out there. If we are so convinced that what we do is right, then surely we can get that message across to the non-hunting majority who are reasonable people?

We need leadership. Leadership is not hiding in fear, lest someone find out what we really do. but that still leaves the question: Where is the leadership?

Thank you @Hank2211 for this post, much more concise and clear than my rambling rant but the heart of it is the same.

And, yes, at the most basic root of this problem is the lack of clear leadership and solidarity. Something you have written about on numerous occasions and I truly believe is the solution.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Note the authors interests in the "industry".

Gamevest, one of the top stud game breeders in South Africa, operates from 25 000 hectares of sweet-grass bushveld near Thabazimbi and in the Gravelotte region in the Limpopo province of South Africa.


http://www.gamevest.co.za/wp-conten...riefing-Exotic-Game-Breeding-V6-Cape-Town.pdf

• • Conservation through high value game breeding - BUZZWORD
  
  
• • Impressive horns, fangs, tusks, colour, or body mass - survive longer & breed more prolifically.
  
  
• • Nature is also uncompromisingly efficient by eliminating the weakest first, through predation.
  
  
• • Human intervention has turned this natural selection certainty on its head through the practice of trophy hunting.
  
  
• • Some believe that bans on hunting is a proper solution to conserve, but those take no cognisance of the fact hunting, as a primary source of utilisation, creates value, and value secures protection.
  
  •“Kenia banned hunting in 1978, and has since paid for its folly by losing 85% of its wildlife.”
  
  
• • When wildlife is reduced to its value in meat, it will either be eaten, poached, or simply killed into extinction.
  
  
• • Dollars earned by governments or tour operators do not reach local communities, and buy animals no protection.
  
  
• • South African game ranchers embrace value creation through sustainable utilisation.
  
  
• • We are now reaping the rewards in this vibrant and sustainable industry.
  
  
• • For tonight, we will focus on the “business” of conservation – the high value game breeding sector.

@BRICKBURN, Thank you for always bringing the facts to the discussion, which is always important in a discussion that is so controversial.

I also checked out the authors hunting outfit website and it is filled with trophy pictures. I think if you are going to take a position like this you should talk the talk and walk the walk. I wouldn't know what his FB page or FB outfits' page shows but I can only assume the same. If you're going to come out and take such a strong position than your actions should be congruent with your words.

Back in the day when AH had no other source of income other than google AdSense offsetting some of its costs, a photo that was reported as gory and gruesome of a warthog with blood showing. They challenged me to remove that picture or close down AdSense, I refused to remove it. At the time there were many picture showing some blood and it was just a witch hunt. I refuse and will always refuse to succumb to those kind of manipulation and pressure. Here is the post: Google disables AdSense on AfricaHunting.com for violent or gore content: http://www.africahunting.com/thread...g-com-for-violent-or-disturbing-content.9742/.

 

[billc]

I for one am so sick of the we must change our ways to fit in. To think stuff like facebook and websites caused the problems in just hiding your head in the sand. Yes we should you common sense and put tasteful pics up but to stop using facebook or websites is just letting them win that battle to.

I know guys think everyone is a anti hunter now a days but I dont believe that all. I dont go running around to my clients or people I meet and tell them about my hunts. If it comes up or I feel I can then I do and answer the question they might have or tell my side at the least. I have had must after the talk totally understand and support what I do.

When pieter was over I have the perfect example to share about what the public thinks or knows. We took my son out with his girlfriend for dinner. She knows dakota hunts but not how much or what he has hunted really. Well we brought up elephants and I saw her face get that look on it. Then dakota said that is her favorite animal that is why she was like that.

She went on to say I did not know you could hunt elephant and that since there is so few why would we want to. Now this is a 18 year old girl who must would say would not understand our side by what some many think. So I tried to let her in on some fact which she listen to but I could see she was still having a hard time with this issue.

So I ask her if she knew that if a hundred elephant were hunted and yes killed but that would mean many more thousand would live if that was good. She said of coarse that would be good. I told her that is what hunting is and that is why we hunt them. Then I told her how many hungry poor people those elephant feed and you seen her whole way of looking at this issue change. Did not try and tell her stats or blow smoke just the truth.Told her how the money from hunting them helps stop the poaching. Then give her the hard details on what poaching is and made sure she knew that was not hunting.

My son later told me when they got to the car it was the first thing she talked to him about and how she understand why we do hunt now. But that she never heard it talked about like that before. She only had ever seen all the bs on tv and that is what she thought was the really thing with elephants. The same thing would apply for any animal really.

we dont win any wars with the antis because we just get into pissing matches trying to be the louder voice. We dont need to worry about the anti as we will never change there mines but we need to put out info that everyone can understand and tell then why we do what we do.

Sometimes simple is best with out all the fancy stats or guys who think they know how to talk with people in the general public. Get the public to understand we win the war plan and simple.

 

[BRICKBURN]

..........
So in the world of instant access to people's photos, when we post photos of the animals we've taken is that the virtual world equivalent of parading our deer around town with the tailgate open?

Tailgates up around here. You have to search us out.
AH does not randomly appear on computers around the world.