Times Are Changing, Do We Change With Them

[35bore]

WHAT?!? HIDE OR DIE IS THIS THE MESSAGE?!? Should everyone just pretend that we are not hunters so that we can keep hunting? Should we have a secret hand signal or button that we wear so that we can recognize each other and then can feel free to speak about what we're passionate about and who we are? When did we become so fearful and weak? This is exactly what the anti want us to do , this is exactly their agenda, what the author of this post has prescribed is the recipe for the end of hunting as we know it.

Yes the world has changed and we must change with it but not in this way. I do agree that we need to come together with a united front and that we need to make a plan of action, but that is just it ACTION NOT INACTION. The biggest problem that I see is the reluctance of hunters, outfitters and big hunting organizations and websites to stand up and fight for our passion. The anti have organized and been aggressively attacking us on many fronts simultaneously and our stance has always been to not react or fight and they are eating our lunch.

We have big organizations like SCI, NRA, DSC and many others that have huge war chests but they do nothing to stand up for hunting and fight the antis, not on the ground, but in cyberspace. We must use some of that money to fund the future of hunting, we can not continue to sit back and be passive, we must fight their attacks not verbally but using the same tactics that they employ. We must disrupt them! We can no longer afford to take the high road, we need to get dirty.

Sometime it is the better choice to not engage but at this point we can see that this is a war of attrition and they are winning so look into your history books and see what we need to do, we need to hit back not hide or we will starve. We do not need to engage in petty arguments with fanatics on FB but fight back with our wallets because that is what they are using against us.

The organizations that we have been funding for a long time need to get together, set aside their differences and start to seriously fight for US and the future of hunting. We need to pressure these big clubs that are sitting on 100's of millions of OUR dollars in the name of "conservation" so that they start recognizing that hunters themselves are the ones who need the conservation the most.

They need to hire a political firm that aggressively investigates and exposes these groups for their spending practices and find any dirt on them that they can (and there is plenty). We need to sue and attack these anti groups and individual computer warriors on issues of defamation, death threats, hacking (Rowland Ward was down for months and there are many more examples like that), highjacking websites, spamming and copyright infringement and loss of income from anti attacks on individuals and companies that are legally existing and acting. They are picking us off and we are letting them. It is true they are winning because we are letting them! We are victims of our inaction and own making.

Aren't hunter the first to return to war torn countries, long before tourism. Aren't hunters the ones who will risk life and limb and disease to travel to remote places in the world seeking adventure and profound experiences in nature while at the same time sharing our wealth with those less fortunate? It takes bravery and moxxy to chase after dangerous game or wounded game…. why should we hide? Who have hunters become? Hunters have become the hunted! I would rather fight like a Lion than hide in a hole like worm. Hunters are the wolves not the sheep...

When I read something like this I think WOW, maybe the anti have won if they can chase us into a hole where we feel like we have to hide and pretend and act like hunting is our secret passion that is not socially acceptable, we are not pedophiles!

I think we should collectively change the words hunt, hunter and hunting… from now on we can use the words sizzle, sizzler and sizzling, everyone got that? Pretend that blood doesn't exist? How is that going to save hunting? No more trophy pictures? Act like we're all in the tourism industry? It'll be a big surprise when someone books some adventure travel only to realize once they get there that they have inadvertently booked a hunting safari but they got dazzled by all of those campfire and game pictures, with people sitting around having a glass of wine and laughing. At that point why not just go into the tourism industry and be done with hunting if you no longer have a taste for it! You have already got the set up, just put your gun away.

I can assure you that if the beef industry were to be attacked by the antis with videos of cows with sad eyes and sad background music playing from some famous musician to solicit donations the beef industry with hit back full force with a well though out PR and smear campaign. Why doesn't the hunting industry protect their interest like this?

I have so many things to say about this post but I guess the most important thing is WHY IS ANY HUNTER OR OUTFITTER ON FACEBOOK???? Facebook is as anti hunting as they come as far as businesses are concerned from the top management down. This social media giant has a very anti agenda and I know this from several personal experiences with them as well as what they have done to some unfortunate individuals that have been chosen to be made an example of and shamed virally while doing something perfectly legal.

The antis on social media will relentlessly feed anything that they can find until something takes off and it does not matter what. Every time something goes viral they use that to get donations and fund their organizations. We should be putting a spotlight on them showing who they are looking into their taxes and their lifestyle and their background and showing how little is going to anything but lining their pockets. The same kind of tactics that they use against hunters who dare to post their trophy pictures with their names attached.

I would not support or use FB or Intstagram. FB has done more harm to hunting than any website out there by far. They have enabled anti hunting groups, help them to persecute us, build their coffers and allowed them to use our media against us even copy righted material unless you are willing to sue them. Any hunter still using FB is enabling the antis in my opinion and opening yourself up to being used to further their agenda.

I can assure you that we are being attacked not just on the hunting front but the gun front as well. At least the NRA puts a lot of money and effort into fighting for those rights but I don't see the big hunting organizations doing the same. If you want to protect wildlife protect the hunters. Right now it's us hunters who need protection and as a result we will protect the wildlife!

I have never ranted on the site like this before! Sorry if this post is jumbled about but this has been on my mind for sometime and this letter just made me crazy. I see that the author is scared and has good intentions but I couldn't disagree with most of his ideas more.

I can assure you that @BRICKBURN and I have been on the front lines fighting the anti off on a regular, lately daily basis, and if we just let them and gave in to them AH would be long gone. AH would not be what it is today without hunters being passionate and sharing their love of hunting and their experiences. It would not be the same without the pictures and ,yes, some of them have blood, that is par for the course, it's hunting. If we remove the blood and the trophy pictures and the stories will the anti suddenly leave us alone? Never! They will have just gained some ground. Cleansing the image of hunting will not slow down this train down, it needs to be derailed.

Whaoooooo!!!!!!! Damn!!!!!! And as Sest, put it,,, Boooooommmmmmm!!!!!!!!

I doubt Phil was talking submission J, as interesting as the article was. I feel hunting and hunters have become and are becoming taboo, sort of prohibition of sorts. Simple truth is education. Not name calling.

My neck of the WOODS, neighbors ask, why do you shoot so much???? I educate them, and anyone else who wants to learn.

 

[wesheltonj]

I have to agree somewhat with the original. What can we do to clean up the hunting image? I agree stop posting bad kill videos on You Tube. I saw one where the "hunter" shot three time and when filmed the sheep falling down the snow leaving a nice bloody trail. That does not help. Or how about the shows on Outdoor or Sportsmen's Channels, with all the high fives, jumping around and talking about "hammered him", etc. SCI and DSC cant do it alone.

 

[Nyati]

I have to agree that some pics and videos are of very bad taste.

I only post my hunting pics on AH, and will continue to do so, as tastefully as possible.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

I doubt Phil was talking submission J, as interesting as the article was.

I don't think Phil was doing anything more than bringing this conversation to the table which I think is great and relevant. I do think that we are beyond the point which we can recover from this with a PR and an education initiative as much as I wish it was that simple. I'm all about having a reasonable discussion and trying to take the high road however there is a time when discussion needs to evolve into action and in this case strong organized action.

 

[35bore]

I don't think Phil was doing anything more than bringing this conversation to the table which I think is great and relevant. I do think that we are beyond the point which we can recover from this with a PR and an education initiative as much as I wish it was that simple. I'm all about having a reasonable discussion and trying to take the high road however there is a time when discussion needs to evolve into action and in this case strong organized action.

Maybe my original post was misinterpreted, regardless, i completely agree... I don't feel we should back down in any way, shape, or form. If those who choose not to stand beside us, let them stand beside us...

Only reason I called on you was because this topic was VERY close and you showed it. It wasn't a test, but I'm happy you responded the way you did.

 

[gizmo]

While I agree with a lot that is said in the article I strongly disagree that we shouldn't post pictures. First it's our right to do so but we do have the obligation to post tastefully. Second, by not doing so it just increases the shock factor of the non hunters when they see a dead animal that has been hunted. The key to the issue is posting pics tastefully. There is also nothing wrong with talking about the hunt or the shot as long as, again, done tastefully. The thing is the anti's want it to be a shock thing when a pic of a trophy hunted animal is posted. We need to show its a normal thing and that the benefits of hunting help the animals and how they do so.

 

[robertq]

I think Phil started this because he was bored. Lol
One thing I think is a big down fall to hunting is scoring.....
Do this make you a better hunter then someone else or did God shine a light on you that day.
Myself I'm in for the hunt and that is how I was taught at the age of 8yr. old.
Yes we all agree we have no unity.

 

[BRICKBURN]

........
One thing I think is a big down fall to hunting is scoring.....
Does this make you a better hunter then someone else or did God shine a light on you that day............... .

Fortune or God smiled on me the day I run into the big one. No better or worse than anyone else out hunting on any hunting day. It is just I'm nuts enough to make it a bigger challenge (statistically speaking).

 

[Gemsbok Gangsta]

I am a hunter. I will not apologize. I will post hunting pics in an album on FB. Look if you like they will not be tasteless and full of unessecary gore. Agreed the antis don't need anymore ammo(they just got a whole lot more Bloomberg money) but let's be real regardless of how tasteful we are and cautious not to offend as hunters we are a target for the antis. Let's just keep it clean,no bragging and keep our heads high!!

 

[gizmo]

I am a hunter. I will not apologize. I will post hunting pics in an album on FB. Look if you like they will not be tasteless and full of unessecary gore. Agreed the antis don't need anymore ammo(they just got a whole lot more Bloomberg money) but let's be real regardless of how tasteful we are and cautious not to offend as hunters we are a target for the antis. Let's just keep it clean,no bragging and keep our heads high!!

Here here!

 

[lwaters]

I post a few pictures of my animals on facebook but I think only my friends can see them. I use it many as a place to store photos you never know you could lose the ones at home through a fire ect. I have noticed the more friends you have on the facebook the more worthless it is. I think I have only gotten one negative comment about my pictures but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Actually it was from a fellow hunter who I just assumed was jealous of my being able to hunt Africa or willing to do it. I feel hunting is threaten more by the difficulty to find a place to hunt. Here in Kansas I actually bought land just to have a place to hunt. Everyone can find a place for good fishing but not hunting. Alot of young people become discouraged and take up another sport. It really hard to get that trophy whitetail on the limited public hunting but not to difficult on well managed private land. When I was young everyone in my school had an uncle or grandpa who had hunting but not so today as the farms and ranges have gotten bought up by bigger farms or people like me who bought land early when it was cheaper. There will always be hunting but I don't know if there will be alot of hunters.

 

[Velo Dog]

I could not possibly agree with you more Paul. I personally take no issue with a person setting goals and trying to achieve those goals. I've taken a 50" Kudu, I won't take another unless I think or more importantly my PH thinks it will go at least 54" and even then I'm looking for a particular shape too. But that's my goal, it doesn't need to be anyone else's nor do I want it to be.

My son took an absolute monster of an Nyala last year, I have no intention of having that entered into some record book. He should be happy with that bull without it being something he needs to gloat in front of other hunters about, especially at 13 years of age.

We absolutely ruin hunting for ourselves when it becomes something we do seeking others approvals.

I totally agree with you that doing pretty much anything, in hopes that others will approve of our gloating over whatever it is, certainly is the ruin of what at the least - being outdoors should be about.

Evidently I'm too simple to grasp why anyone wants to make what should be good exercise for the muscles and quietness for the soul, into a tape measure / record trophy book contest.
I don't get it (evidently neither does the general public).

Any day now, I keep expecting to see Cheer Leaders in camo mini skirts, on some of today's TV hunting and fishing shows.
A hunter on their team takes a higher scoring animal than the other team competing for the record book and the cheer leaders break out into their song and dance up on some ridge overlooking the action.

(Professional Bass Fishing TV shows are pretty close to that already).

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Any day now, I keep expecting to see Cheer Leaders in camo mini skirts, on some of today's TV hunting and fishing shows.

Not an all together bad idea....

 

[LivingTheDream]

Anytime we kill an animal we are making the anti's mad, period. Doesn't matter how nicely done the photo is, if there isn't a photo and we talk about it, even if we don't talk about it they are still pissed about us hunting. This is like saying don't say offensive things about terrorists because they will get mad. It doesn't matter.

Anti's have no problems with dead animals, they post them all the time and say how disgusting this is. I have a friend who is an anti and post pictures of roadkill saying how sad...I don't get it not do I intend to.

Now I don't post my pics on Facebook, I rarely use it unless it is to say happy birthday or congratulations to someone. I will deactivate it for months at a time. But Facebook has some privacy settings, people should use it.

The biggest thing I have seen is when I go to SCI banquets or Regional wild sheep banquets, is you have successful and educated people who can talk about hunting and conservation. Compared to some local hunt clubs, guys are discussing happy hours, deer camp, etc etc that involves more drinking/whoring/or other non hunting related activity. I see this over and over where hunting is more of a drinking club.

Now I know that is a bit of a tangent but we, the guys who preach conservation, need to be more VOCAL, more out going, and be willing to embrace discussions with anti's in a logic way. A good friend of mine's wife is an anti as well (I live in DC there is a lot of them) and I told her I was going to hunt a lioness, she looked at me and said well if you are doing it, it must be for the good of the animal but that I need to keep an eye on everyone else. Point being, she is an anti, she got to know me, saw my passion for hunting, the animals and understands why I do it. I didn't tell her to f off, or argue, I just say I see where you are coming from, but think of it like this...the more people that see us as reasonable good people, makes it harder for them to hate us as a whole.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Not an all together bad idea....

 

[Wheels]

Anti's have no problems with dead animals, they post them all the time and say how disgusting this is. I have a friend who is an anti and post pictures of roadkill saying how sad...I don't get it not do I intend to.
.

Feel free to help your friend out by sending him this photo.

 

[Velo Dog]

Anytime we kill an animal we are making the anti's mad, period. Doesn't matter how nicely done the photo is, if there isn't a photo and we talk about it, even if we don't talk about it they are still pissed about us hunting. This is like saying don't say offensive things about terrorists because they will get mad. It doesn't matter.

Anti's have no problems with dead animals, they post them all the time and say how disgusting this is. I have a friend who is an anti and post pictures of roadkill saying how sad...I don't get it not do I intend to.

Now I don't post my pics on Facebook, I rarely use it unless it is to say happy birthday or congratulations to someone. I will deactivate it for months at a time. But Facebook has some privacy settings, people should use it.

The biggest thing I have seen is when I go to SCI banquets or Regional wild sheep banquets, is you have successful and educated people who can talk about hunting and conservation. Compared to some local hunt clubs, guys are discussing happy hours, deer camp, etc etc that involves more drinking/whoring/or other non hunting related activity. I see this over and over where hunting is more of a drinking club.

Now I know that is a bit of a tangent but we, the guys who preach conservation, need to be more VOCAL, more out going, and be willing to embrace discussions with anti's in a logic way. A good friend of mine's wife is an anti as well (I live in DC there is a lot of them) and I told her I was going to hunt a lioness, she looked at me and said well if you are doing it, it must be for the good of the animal but that I need to keep an eye on everyone else. Point being, she is an anti, she got to know me, saw my passion for hunting, the animals and understands why I do it. I didn't tell her to f off, or argue, I just say I see where you are coming from, but think of it like this...the more people that see us as reasonable good people, makes it harder for them to hate us as a whole.

I totally agree with you on the point of - We'll never make the antis happy.
The original article that Phoenix Phil posted was IMO referring to how the general public perceives us and why we enjoy hunting, not so much how the fanatic haters (anti hunters) perceive us.
Nobody can stop the haters from hating, they live to hate, they love it.
However, millions of simply uninformed "on-the-fence" type people are usually quite capable of receiving facts, as long as these facts are presented in a format they can understand.
Evidently they are puzzled, if not irritated by hunters evidently hunting only for or primarily for the purpose of measuring the horns and then loudly crowing about it.

 

[Pheroze]

WHAT?!? HIDE OR DIE IS THIS THE MESSAGE?!? Should everyone just pretend that we are not hunters so that we can keep hunting? Should we have a secret hand signal or button that we wear so that we can recognize each other and then can feel free to speak about what we're passionate about and who we are? When did we become so fearful and weak? This is exactly what the anti want us to do , this is exactly their agenda, what the author of this post has prescribed is the recipe for the end of hunting as we know it.

Yes the world has changed and we must change with it but not in this way. I do agree that we need to come together with a united front and that we need to make a plan of action, but that is just it ACTION NOT INACTION. The biggest problem that I see is the reluctance of hunters, outfitters and big hunting organizations and websites to stand up and fight for our passion. The anti have organized and been aggressively attacking us on many fronts simultaneously and our stance has always been to not react or fight and they are eating our lunch.

We have big organizations like SCI, NRA, DSC and many others that have huge war chests but they do nothing to stand up for hunting and fight the antis, not on the ground, but in cyberspace. We must use some of that money to fund the future of hunting, we can not continue to sit back and be passive, we must fight their attacks not verbally but using the same tactics that they employ. We must disrupt them! We can no longer afford to take the high road, we need to get dirty.

Sometime it is the better choice to not engage but at this point we can see that this is a war of attrition and they are winning so look into your history books and see what we need to do, we need to hit back not hide or we will starve. We do not need to engage in petty arguments with fanatics on FB but fight back with our wallets because that is what they are using against us.

The organizations that we have been funding for a long time need to get together, set aside their differences and start to seriously fight for US and the future of hunting. We need to pressure these big clubs that are sitting on 100's of millions of OUR dollars in the name of "conservation" so that they start recognizing that hunters themselves are the ones who need the conservation the most.

They need to hire a political firm that aggressively investigates and exposes these groups for their spending practices and find any dirt on them that they can (and there is plenty). We need to sue and attack these anti groups and individual computer warriors on issues of defamation, death threats, hacking (Rowland Ward was down for months and there are many more examples like that), highjacking websites, spamming and copyright infringement and loss of income from anti attacks on individuals and companies that are legally existing and acting. They are picking us off and we are letting them. It is true they are winning because we are letting them! We are victims of our inaction and own making.

Aren't hunter the first to return to war torn countries, long before tourism. Aren't hunters the ones who will risk life and limb and disease to travel to remote places in the world seeking adventure and profound experiences in nature while at the same time sharing our wealth with those less fortunate? It takes bravery and moxxy to chase after dangerous game or wounded game…. why should we hide? Who have hunters become? Hunters have become the hunted! I would rather fight like a Lion than hide in a hole like worm. Hunters are the wolves not the sheep...

When I read something like this I think WOW, maybe the anti have won if they can chase us into a hole where we feel like we have to hide and pretend and act like hunting is our secret passion that is not socially acceptable, we are not pedophiles!

I think we should collectively change the words hunt, hunter and hunting… from now on we can use the words sizzle, sizzler and sizzling, everyone got that? Pretend that blood doesn't exist? How is that going to save hunting? No more trophy pictures? Act like we're all in the tourism industry? It'll be a big surprise when someone books some adventure travel only to realize once they get there that they have inadvertently booked a hunting safari but they got dazzled by all of those campfire and game pictures, with people sitting around having a glass of wine and laughing. At that point why not just go into the tourism industry and be done with hunting if you no longer have a taste for it! You have already got the set up, just put your gun away.

I can assure you that if the beef industry were to be attacked by the antis with videos of cows with sad eyes and sad background music playing from some famous musician to solicit donations the beef industry with hit back full force with a well though out PR and smear campaign. Why doesn't the hunting industry protect their interest like this?

I have so many things to say about this post but I guess the most important thing is WHY IS ANY HUNTER OR OUTFITTER ON FACEBOOK???? Facebook is as anti hunting as they come as far as businesses are concerned from the top management down. This social media giant has a very anti agenda and I know this from several personal experiences with them as well as what they have done to some unfortunate individuals that have been chosen to be made an example of and shamed virally while doing something perfectly legal.

The antis on social media will relentlessly feed anything that they can find until something takes off and it does not matter what. Every time something goes viral they use that to get donations and fund their organizations. We should be putting a spotlight on them showing who they are looking into their taxes and their lifestyle and their background and showing how little is going to anything but lining their pockets. The same kind of tactics that they use against hunters who dare to post their trophy pictures with their names attached.

I would not support or use FB or Intstagram. FB has done more harm to hunting than any website out there by far. They have enabled anti hunting groups, help them to persecute us, build their coffers and allowed them to use our media against us even copy righted material unless you are willing to sue them. Any hunter still using FB is enabling the antis in my opinion and opening yourself up to being used to further their agenda.

I can assure you that we are being attacked not just on the hunting front but the gun front as well. At least the NRA puts a lot of money and effort into fighting for those rights but I don't see the big hunting organizations doing the same. If you want to protect wildlife protect the hunters. Right now it's us hunters who need protection and as a result we will protect the wildlife!

I have never ranted on the site like this before! Sorry if this post is jumbled about but this has been on my mind for sometime and this letter just made me crazy. I see that the author is scared and has good intentions but I couldn't disagree with most of his ideas more.

I can assure you that @BRICKBURN and I have been on the front lines fighting the anti off on a regular, lately daily basis, and if we just let them and gave in to them AH would be long gone. AH would not be what it is today without hunters being passionate and sharing their love of hunting and their experiences. It would not be the same without the pictures and ,yes, some of them have blood, that is par for the course, it's hunting. If we remove the blood and the trophy pictures and the stories will the anti suddenly leave us alone? Never! They will have just gained some ground. Cleansing the image of hunting will not slow down this train down, it needs to be derailed.

 

[AB2506]

I totally agree with you on the point of - We'll never make the antis happy.
The original article that Phoenix Phil posted was IMO referring to how the general public perceives us and why we enjoy hunting, not so much how the fanatic haters (anti hunters) perceive us.
Nobody can stop the haters from hating, they live to hate, they love it.
However, millions of simply uninformed "on-the-fence" type people are usually quite capable of receiving facts, as long as these facts are presented in a format they can understand.
Evidently they are puzzled, if not irritated by hunters evidently hunting only for or primarily for the purpose of measuring the horns and then loudly crowing about it.

Of the general population, my college Park Management instructor said that we have 7.5% pro-hunting, 7.5% anti-hunting and 85% undecided about hunting. Is the anti-hunting crowd bigger than when he said that about 1989? They are certainly louder than they once were. They have linked up with animal protection (humane), animal rights, and "conservationists" (really preservationists), so the numbers may be higher than 27 years ago. Back then, if you walked into the average room and said "I believe in animal rights." You would have been made fun of, now days it feels as if hunters are in that boat.

It is unlikely we can change the average anti-hunter's attitude to hunting, but we have to fight to keep the undecided, undecided or sympathetic to hunting. Otherwise, we will lose the battle.

 

[Pheroze]

If the leadership (the African countries we bring dollars to, the professional hunting associations, the hunting organizations we join and the like) don't speak up we, as individual hunters, are pissing in the wind for distance. We will be yelled at in airports, shunned by colleagues and made to feel like outsiders.

The organizations we support financially are failing us.

A friend that teaches the local hunting course tells me enrolment is at an all time high. So, this tells me the problem is a public image one and not the reality. The number of female hunters is growing every year! That tells me we can rightly blame the leadership. The rank and file is doing their thing and spreading the word. But, if the leadership is not part of the solution they are the problem.