9.3x62mm vs. .375 H&H Mag

[rdog]

Hello all!

I’ve been doing some homework into the whole .375 H&H Mag vs 9.3x62mm business.
Now, what I have to say on the matter is this….

The .375 H&H has a decided advantage over the the 9.3x62mm only when the 9.3x62 is loaded to original pressures.

Now, with that being said, once you start loading the 9.3x62 to 64k psi, the same pressure the .375 H&H runs at, they are pretty much equal.

Yes, I can hear the gasps, and the snorts of derision already coming about from what I just said, from the die hard .375 H&H fans.

But, I am not just callously saying that to stir the pot, so to say, nor am I trying to cause a fight.
I do have data to back up what I’ve said, and will post said data in pic form after I am done writing here.

I also want to let everyone know that, the data for the .375 H&H is with a standard 24 inch barrel, whereas the 9.3x62mm data is with a 22 inch barrel.

If the 9.3x62mm is given a 24 inch barrel, and a modern, strong bolt action, there isn’t any reason to not load it to such pressures, except for maybe one, and that’s free recoil.

I hope to open a few eyes to those who may be on the fence about getting a 9.3x62mm, and hopefully opening the eyes of those who are objective .375 H&H aficionado’s too.

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen
I’ve been taking a play out of your playbook, and have applied it to the good Ol’ 9.3x62mm.
Plus, there is another gentleman by the name of Bob Mitchell here in the states, who has done the same thing.


Hawk

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The 9.3x62 book as discussed on this forum has some very interesting info on this subject.

 

[Sideshow]

Contrary to popular belief that .375 H& H is the minimum calibre for class A game in Zimbabwe (elephant, buffalo and hippo) the 9.3 is perfectly legal without having to over-load it and the current RWS 293 grain TUG load safely meets the minimum energy requirements. More and more people are re-discovering that the 9.3 is a great allround rifle. For the man who occasionally gets to shoot a buffalo or elephant, and spends most of his time hunting kudu, eland, etc, the 9.3 makes an awful lot of sense.



The recoil is not excessive, nor the meat damage so severe as to make it an unreasonable choice for game as small as impala, so its owner might as well use it on everything. This makes a great deal more sense than doing most of your hunting with a small or medium bore rifle, and then having to change to a different rifle, often with a longer bolt throw for that once every two or three year buffalo hunt. Beware of the hunter who only uses one rifle; he usually knows it intimately, where it shoots at longer ranges and generally is not the originator of stuff-ups and wounded game. Loaded with good bullets the 9.3 will give the same terminal performances as a .375 and do it without the sharper recoil/ longer action/ greater weight of its modern replacement. With regard to bullet choice, when I first obtained my 9.3 I had a choice of RWSTUG’s or pre WWII Kynoch solids for buffalo hunting. Not trusting the old Kynoch ammo I stuck to the new RWS stuff and have been very impressed.



In summary then, the 9.3 is a bit of an overkill on dassies, and a bit short on horsepower for a Tyrannosaurus, but on everything inbetween it is as perfectly adequate today as it was in 1905.



– Hunter's Guide to Classic African Cartridges von Charlie Haley and Dr. Don 'Ganyana' Heath .

Hunter's Guide to Classic African Cartridges (The Hunter's Guide Series Book 2)

Quote shared via Kindle: "In summary then, the 9.3 is a bit of an overkill on dassies, and a bit short on horsepower for a Tyrannosaurus, but on everything inbetween it is as perfectly adequate today as it was in 1905."

amzn.eu

Might I also add that the 9.3 are also cheaper in double rifles than the 375

 

[Tam Dl]

Actually, I NEVER say that.... but apparently the autocorrect on my phone didn't know that. Addiction...Not auction!
It's only an addiction if you're trying to quit!

I thought it was rather wise. The ratio between overcomsumption, forced selling, trading for fun, and so on, all in one pithy remark.

 

[Tam Dl]

I note some support for RL powders here. I had heard they were less consistent given variances in heat. Anyone run into that?

 

[geoff rath]

This would be one of those "eternal" discussions that continue, on and on. No real experience with either, despite having owned examples of both; however I look at their origins: 375H&H developed by the good old British chaps for both P/G and D/G around 1910.
9.3x62 is of German origin, developed as a good "farm" rifle for less affluent German-heritage folk in their then colonies. Of course, the two World Wars had their effect; preferences went to the H&H with British and American hunters. Red Leg sums it up so well. Both can be boosted, and the H&H rechambered to the Weatherby 375...
Bruce Moulds puts the icing on the cake: 9.3X64 is the TRUE challenger to the H&H, sadly component shortage limits its use. Lack of X64 brass is a poor excuse, once we have 100 or so cases we should be satisfied for a dozen or more African Safaris, and it is first class ...

 

[Puddle]

I've yet seen mentioned comments regarding the nominal MVs printed on boxes of factory ammunition that plane loads of hunters take with them on their dream hunts. Doctari and others have written about the "enthusiastic" MVs asserted by Kynoch about their DG loads. I'm thinking that enthusiasm continues today.

I just recently ran a 10-shot string of a factory offering past the chronograph for a legal Zim caliber that averaged 200+ fps slower than stated and consequently wouldn't pass ME muster for DG hunting. I also have another test of a well-known manufacturer of DG ammo queued up to see if their promises hold up. I'm hoping for better results.

If someone declares you need 3,909 ft-lbs of ME for admission to play (which is not asking a lot), then buy a box and test it (or have someone test it for you). If it passes muster, then I suggest buying a case worth from the same lot 'cause you just got lucky.

 

[Warbeast]

But the 9.3x62 is much prettier
A thing to consider for me at least

 

[ChrisG]

I've yet seen mentioned comments regarding the nominal MVs printed on boxes of factory ammunition that plane loads of hunters take with them on their dream hunts. Doctari and others have written about the "enthusiastic" MVs asserted by Kynoch about their DG loads. I'm thinking that enthusiasm continues today.

I just recently ran a 10-shot string of a factory offering past the chronograph for a legal Zim caliber that averaged 200+ fps slower than stated and consequently wouldn't pass ME muster for DG hunting. I also have another test of a well-known manufacturer of DG ammo queued up to see if their promises hold up. I'm hoping for better results.

If someone declares you need 3,909 ft-lbs of ME for admission to play (which is not asking a lot), then buy a box and test it (or have someone test it for you). If it passes muster, then I suggest buying a case worth from the same lot 'cause you just got lucky.

Or handload!!!

 

[rookhawk]

A big difference between the two calibers in their original configuration was weight.

9.3x62mm were typically very light guns. Kicked like donkeys, but a joy to carry. Hence, the PHs loved them.

The 375HHs were heavier guns, generally speaking. Less fun to carry, easier on the shoulder to shoot.

Obviously in modern guns, there are numerous exceptions to these stereotypes, but I’ve certainly seen enough 7.25lb Mauser Bs in 9.3 to compare to original 8.75lb HHs to bring up this difference with confidence.

 

[guerero]

A big difference between the two calibers in their original configuration was weight.

9.3x62mm were typically very light guns. Kicked like donkeys, but a joy to carry. Hence, the PHs loved them.

The 375HHs were heavier guns, generally speaking. Less fun to carry, easier on the shoulder to shoot.

Obviously in modern guns, there are numerous exceptions to these stereotypes, but I’ve certainly seen enough 7.25lb Mauser Bs in 9.3 to compare to original 8.75lb HHs to bring up this difference with confidence.

Indeed. I still believe that the weight is an issue all the time, especially regarding walking and stalking.
I personally don’t feel this „donkey kicks” while shooting my 9,3x62.

 

[geoff rath]

To my mind, the real comparison should be between the 375 H&H, and the later 9.3X64 (1927 - 1929 vintage; a MUCH closer match.

 

[Rule 303]

Well I have only skimmed through the 16 pages of this thread so may be repeating what has already been said. So the OP is saying the 35 Whelen is the equal of the 375H&H. Before you start to argue bear this in mind. The difference between the 9.3X62 and the 375H&H is the same as the difference between the 35 Whelen and the 9.3X62. Ergo if the 9.3 is the equal of the 375 then the 35W must be the equal of the 9.3X62. If the 35W is the equal of the 9.3X62 the it must also be the equal of the 375H&H.

Now if you want to load the 9.3X64 to its potential then you have an equal to the 375H&H.

I do not have a 9.3X62 but have a 375H&H however the largest I have used this on is pigs. I do know a bloke who has both and has shoot many scrub bulls, horses, pigs with both and is not shy loading them up to p[otential. His words are along the lines: The 9.3 is a great cartridge but it is not a 375H&H.

My take from this is that no matter how things look on paper they can be different in reality.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well I have only skimmed through the 16 pages of this thread so may be repeating what has already been said. So the OP is saying the 35 Whelen is the equal of the 375H&H. Before you start to argue bear this in mind. The difference between the 9.3X62 and the 375H&H is the same as the difference between the 35 Whelen and the 9.3X62. Ergo if the 9.3 is the equal of the 375 then the 35W must be the equal of the 9.3X62. If the 35W is the equal of the 9.3X62 the it must also be the equal of the 375H&H.

Now if you want to load the 9.3X64 to its potential then you have an equal to the 375H&H.

I do not have a 9.3X62 but have a 375H&H however the largest I have used this on is pigs. I do know a bloke who has both and has shoot many scrub bulls, horses, pigs with both and is not shy loading them up to p[otential. His words are along the lines: The 9.3 is a great cartridge but it is not a 375H&H.

My take from this is that no matter how things look on paper they can be different in reality.

@Rule 303
While the 9.3x62 and 35 Whelen we I'll NEVER EQUAL the 375H&H in sheer muzzle energy there's a things called section density, bullet construction and velocity.

For the 375H&H to equal the sd of a 320gn 9.3x62 or a 310gn 35 cal you have to step upto a 350gn 375H&H.
With the old loads in the 375H&H the 9.3x62 was fully it's equal and better in the penetration stakes.
If you want a good read get hold of the 9.3x62 journal. It explains the benefits of the 9.3x62 over the 375H&H and the reasons a lot of PHs of yore loved the 9.3x62.
Bob

 

[Rule 303]

Bob you are correct, sort of. There are several PH that have said a 350grain 375 pill takes the 375 up into another league. I'll take their word for it at this time. With all comparisons I take it that we are talking of bullets with the same construction.

Now the fly in the ointment. The 375 may only be several thou greater in diameter but a bigger hole equates to more light let in and more tissue damage and more blood let out. The same applies when comparing any two or more calibres. When using bullets of the same construction.

To me the most important things in putting an animal down, in order of importance; Place the bullet strikes and direction of, momentum, construction of the bullet. Without all three the bullet will not get to the vitals and will do little damage if it does not open up. These, to me are essential on anything bigger and tougher than a dog. With smaller animals velocity and a rapidly expanding/explosive bullet can do the trick even with a gut shot. Not encouraging gut shooting.

Now I am not against the 9.3X62 as, just like the 30-06 it is a passing fad Now the 9.3X64 I could go for......yeah, I know, I am odd.

 

[WAB]

@Rule 303
While the 9.3x62 and 35 Whelen we I'll NEVER EQUAL the 375H&H in sheer muzzle energy there's a things called section density, bullet construction and velocity.

For the 375H&H to equal the sd of a 320gn 9.3x62 or a 310gn 35 cal you have to step upto a 350gn 375H&H.
With the old loads in the 375H&H the 9.3x62 was fully it's equal and better in the penetration stakes.
If you want a good read get hold of the 9.3x62 journal. It explains the benefits of the 9.3x62 over the 375H&H and the reasons a lot of PHs of yore loved the 9.3x62.
Bob

I probably posted this earlier on this thread, but anyway; I shot a big Botswana bull elephant with a 375 H&H loaded with 350 gr Woodleigh conventional solids at 2,300 fps. The bullet completely transited that massive skull and kept on going. Later, looking for something that would stop that bullet, we shot a 16” to 18” diameter acacia tree and the bullet went right through and skipped across the pan. I left some of those bullets with a friend who used them on elephant control on his ranch. He reported full length penetration with exit on cow elephant. It is far and away the deepest penetrating load I have ever seen.

 

[Beck]

I own a 9.3 x 62, a 9.3 x 64, and a 9.3 x 66, three .375 ruger's, and a two .375 h&h's....What have you people done to me? Each caliber has it's own merits

 

[John Wasmuth]

Bob you are correct, sort of. There are several PH that have said a 350grain 375 pill takes the 375 up into another league. I'll take their word for it at this time. With all comparisons I take it that we are talking of bullets with the same construction.

Now the fly in the ointment. The 375 may only be several thou greater in diameter but a bigger hole equates to more light let in and more tissue damage and more blood let out. The same applies when comparing any two or more calibres. When using bullets of the same construction.

To me the most important things in putting an animal down, in order of importance; Place the bullet strikes and direction of, momentum, construction of the bullet. Without all three the bullet will not get to the vitals and will do little damage if it does not open up. These, to me are essential on anything bigger and tougher than a dog. With smaller animals velocity and a rapidly expanding/explosive bullet can do the trick even with a gut shot. Not encouraging gut shooting.

Now I am not against the 9.3X62 as, just like the 30-06 it is a passing fad Now the 9.3X64 I could go for......yeah, I know, I am odd.

You do realize of course that 64 velocities are easy peasy obtained in the 62 using modern powders?

 

[93marlin]

And the discussion continues!

 

[Warbeast]

I own a 9.3 x 62, a 9.3 x 64, and a 9.3 x 66, three .375 ruger's, and a two .375 h&h's....What have you people done to me? Each caliber has it's own merits

But doin the math they are all "equal"

So you have 6 of the same rifles

 

[Rule 303]

You do realize of course that 64 velocities are easy peasy obtained in the 62 using modern powders?

Yes but you need to compare apples with apples, so you would need to compare the X64 with modern powders would you not.