Hunting Buffalo in South Africa vs everywhere else

[revturbo9967]

massive generalisation !!!!!!!!

I've seen enough buff charges in SA on video to know they will gore you just as fast as one outside of a fence.

This was certainly far from where I thought this conversation would go.

 

[revturbo9967]

I believe you can have a fantastic or a terrible buffalo hunting experience in every huntable country on the African continent. Per your question from the OP, it may be more of a question of flavor of the hunt as opposed to quality of the hunt. And while you can maximize your bang for the buck so to speak by careful shopping for what you are looking for, ultimately I believe you do in fact get what you pay for. A high quality buff hunt in SA is not likely to be “inexpensive”. Possibly less expensive than the Caprivi, yes. But a very different “flavor” hunt indeed.
You might ask some questions such as, how important is cost to me? For most of us working boys it is in fact a real determining factor. If we all had our way we’d probably be going to Tanzania for 20 or 30 days and shooting 3 or 4 buff. Alas, we were born with good looks and empty wallets so we choose another option. In some cases it may be a 7 day hunt in SA on a property of limited size. If that is what our budget allows, better to have hunted cape buffalo within our limited budget than not at all, right? I think so.
But if we have a larger budget, say $15K - $20K it may expand our opportunities and we need to start answering some additional questions. Questions such as, do I want to also hunt some PG animals and if so, what are those animals? Those additional animals may dictate where we want to hunt because the are found naturally occurring there.
Dropping back to the second question quoted above, quality of the hunt, I think you really must define what this means to you. Everyone’s answer to this question is a little or a lot different. I have had a truly excellent quality hunt in Zimbabwe. The best of my three trips to Africa. I’m going to Mozambique for buff in August. I expect this may be even better than Zim. There are superb buffalo hunting areas and excellent outfitters in every country including SA, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia, etc, etc. I really don’t think you can compare hunt quality between countries. Just how the quality of the hunt you choose stacks up against your expectations. And that comes back to finding the area and outfitter best suited to your desires.
Physical fitness and how physically demanding the hunt will be are another huge consideration. If you will not be satisfied unless you put down 10-15 miles of boot leather a day and crawl into the rack exhausted every day for 10 days, I would choose a large area in Zim or Mozambique, for example. If being into herds of buff every day of the hunt and looking for that “perfect” specimen is the answer, maybe it’s something else. If you don’t mind wading around a swamp and being exhausted and wet, maybe it’s the zambizi delta. If you are less physically fit or just expect to stay in a luxury lodge and spend more time driving and less time walking and sweating, that’s another answer still. All can be high quality hunts and highly enjoyable. Just comes down to what is the right answer to you.
Enough rambling, I hope some tidbit of info helps you in your search. Enjoy the process! It’s all part of the fun

I do wish I could collect my thoughts as well as some of you( and write them down). You hit the nail right on the head. The difference in the flavor of the hunt is really what I was looking for. Well said.

 

[Major Bonkers]

Africa's Most Dangerous, Kevin Robertson

Buffalo!, Craig Boddington

 

[IvW]

A PAC hunt for elephant would also be high on my list.

Hunting PAC elephant in Zim or RSA as a foreigner is illegal....

There's nothing like being in a herd of buff trying to not get winded.

That is normal no matter where you hunt buffalo if it is done right.....

They buy a block of animals in an area and then mark up the prices. They don't like you to know that. At least that's the way it works in Zim. Pretty much everything in Africa is negotiable, US cash dollars talk.

They may own the rights to hunt a block not a block of animals. Each block ar area is alocated a quota of different animals. Other outfitters may hunt on anothers area by arrangement.

So if they have to pay $4000 for an animal and sell it for $5000 "They don't like you to know that", not sure what crap that is but that is how any business works....then all the staff need to get paid and everybody needs to look after you and all your needs...etc. etc. And make sure you get on the plane in one piece....

I would rather not comment on the mighty power of the cash dollar or your comment that everything is negotiable in Africa....rather smug comments and in bad taste.....

 

[mark-hunter]

Speaking of Rawland ward, endosrement for trophy.
As it seams, Rawland Ward endorsed outfitters to check.

Quote
In order for a safari company to qualify, it must have a spotless record with IPHA and or its local outfitter organization such as PHASA, NAPHA, etc. Such an outfitter must not have been banned from any of the major international hunting organizations for inappropriate conduct and, where applicable, must be fully licensed with the local authorities. Thus, when a customer sees the Rowland Ward Ltd. emblem on an outfitter’s brochure, website, or business card, he will immediately know that he is dealing with a company that is serious about the conservation of wildlife and habitat and one that will really go the extra mile to involve local, indigenous people wherever possible in the battle to preserve local wildlife and habitat.
Unqoute

So to hunt fair chase buffalo, in South Africa, Rawland Ward endorsed outfitters should be contacted.
This should be inline with this thread topic.

 

[Red Leg]

I was in Zim in 09. We hunted buff and plains game. If I were to do it all over again I'd pass on on the plains game and buy 2 buff. There's nothing like being in a herd of buff trying to not get winded. A PAC hunt for elephant would also be high on my list. License fees are sometimes negotiable with the PH. They buy a block of animals in an area and then mark up the prices. They don't like you to know that. At least that's the way it works in Zim. Pretty much everything in Africa is negotiable, US cash dollars talk. And like every has said the flight sucks. Senegal is an armpit. If you can fly direct to RSA, do it.

That is what you concluded from a trip to Zimbabwe. That is not exactly how their (or any) business model functions. They purchase hunting rights to a concession (government, tribal community, etc). That block of territory will have a shooting plan associated with it. Using that harvest plan, the concession's cost, the cost of operations (camp, food, PHs, transportation, staff, etc, etc.) a trophy fee list can be developed from a cost basis. At that point if all goes well the business breaks even. The owner then looks for profit margin so he can do little things like feed his family. Among his dials are trophy fees. When playing with that one he has keep a weather eye on his competition, his bookings, any cancelations, etc. Depending upon those factors in a given year, a particular trophy fee might indeed be negotiable if the shooting plan is not otherwise going to be met. There is nothing mysterious with respect to how an African hunting operation balance sheet is created.

 

[Red Leg]

Speaking of Rawland ward, endosrement for trophy.
As it seams, Rawland Ward endorsed outfitters to check.

Quote
In order for a safari company to qualify, it must have a spotless record with IPHA and or its local outfitter organization such as PHASA, NAPHA, etc. Such an outfitter must not have been banned from any of the major international hunting organizations for inappropriate conduct and, where applicable, must be fully licensed with the local authorities. Thus, when a customer sees the Rowland Ward Ltd. emblem on an outfitter’s brochure, website, or business card, he will immediately know that he is dealing with a company that is serious about the conservation of wildlife and habitat and one that will really go the extra mile to involve local, indigenous people wherever possible in the battle to preserve local wildlife and habitat.
Unqoute

View attachment 395517

So to hunt fair chase buffalo, in South Africa, Rawland Ward endorsed outfitters should be contacted.
This should be inline with this thread topic.

Mark - I can't ignore it any more - it is ROWLAND not Rawland!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

That is what you concluded from a trip to Zimbabwe. That is not exactly how their (or any) business model functions. They purchase hunting rights to a concession (government, tribal community, etc). That block of territory will have a shooting plan associated with it. Using that harvest plan, the concession's cost, the cost of operations (camp, food, PHs, transportation, staff, etc, etc.) a trophy fee list can be developed from a cost basis. At that point if all goes well the business breaks even. The owner then looks for profit margin so he can do little things like feed his family. Among his dials are trophy fees. When playing with that one he has keep a weather eye on his competition, his bookings, any cancelations, etc. Depending upon those factors in a given year, a particular trophy fee might indeed be negotiable if the shooting plan is not otherwise going to be met. There is nothing mysterious with respect to how an African hunting operation balance sheet is created.

I have family in this business and some friends too. I can tell you straight up there is no money in this business, I dont even know how or why they do it - I can only think for the love of it.

 

[Tanks]

... A PAC hunt for elephant would also be high on my list. License fees are sometimes negotiable with the PH. They buy a block of animals in an area and then mark up the prices. They don't like you to know that. At least that's the way it works in Zim. ...

A few things, first only a Zimbabwean PH (or a game ranger maybe) can do a PAC animal. It would be illegal for you to do it and I am sure the game scout along for the hunt (required for DG) would nix it. Also, they do not buy a bunch of animals in an area and sell them. They get a concession with rights to it and there is a quota associated with that concession. They do the complete management including poaching patrols etc..

The closest you can get to what you have suggested is CampFire areas which are controlled by the local tribe (still need to register with the game department for the hunt and every time you shoot an elephant) that will have X amount of permits (similar to deprivation permits by land owners here). There you can negotiate (I have shot crop raiding elephant bulls at $3K a pop). The only catch is the tribe takes the ivory on those, however you can export the skin and body parts (legs to make stools etc.)

 

[revturbo9967]

This is not what I expected when starting this thread. That said, I'm glad of the wealth of knowledge on this site.

 

[firehuntfish]

Second pic is a typical herd of RSA buffalo that is raised, protected and then released to be hunted.

Watch the last 45 seconds of the video of this "fenced" South African Cape buffalo hunt. Maybe it's just me, but I with all of the excitement, I had a hard time making out the bull's ear tags...?

 

[Jörg Krüger]

Watch the last 45 seconds of the video of this "fenced" South African Cape buffalo hunt. Maybe it's just me, but I with all of the excitement, I had a hard time making out the bull's ear tags...?

Awesome video.
The camera man has some balls of steel, that's for sure

 

[Stephen Ausband]

I was intending to stay out of this, since with my limited experience (2 buffalo hunts, one in the low country near Kruger in Limpopo Province, RSA, and the other in a huge forestry concession (Kazuma/Pandamasuie) in Zimbabwe, I am certainly no expert. I can only say that my hunt in RSA was very enjoyable, and I plan to do it again. I hunted hard for 5 days before getting a shot at the right animal, saw plenty of buffs that were good, so-so, or not ready for picking yet, accidentally stalked right into the middle of a herd once, with the closest animal about 10 yards away (a pucker-factor of 9.75 out of 10), and finally got a shot opportunity on day 5. It was a wonderful hunt. The Zimbabwe hunt was wonderful too, and I'd love to go back there again. The two hunts were different in "flavor," since checking waterholes in Zim offered the opportunity each morning to sort out the buffalo tracks from those of other critters, including elephants and lions, and I loved the genuine remote and wild feel of the place. But there was certainly nothing "tame" or "artificial" about the RSA hunt, and there sure as hell weren't any animals running around wearing ear tags or other adornments. Listen to the real experts on here (I'm not one), choose the hunt you can afford with an outfit you like, and enjoy the adventure.

 

[WAB]

I was trying to stay on the sidelines for this one, oh well... I have hunted buffalo in Zambia, Botswana, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and South Africa. The South African hunt was in Klaserie, a large reserve open to Kruger.

My biggest bull was in Klaserie, the Kruger genetics have to be seen to be believed. However, it is not truly wild. There are many camps and a well developed road system.

For me, much of the appeal of buffalo hunting is the wilderness experience. Lions roaring at night, elephant wandering through camp, leopard sawing their way up a dry riverbed. The day begins with by the fire in the morning imagining what the day will bring, and ends with drinks by the fire in the evening reliving the adventure. To this end, my best hunts have been in the Zambezi Valley (Zim), Upper Luangwa Valley (Zambia), and the Northern Kalahari (Botswana). I am at a point where I would rather shoot a scrum cap than a 46” herd bull.

The record book means less than nothing as I believe that it incents the harvest of the wrong age class animals.

 

[Vintageguy]

Watch the last 45 seconds of the video of this "fenced" South African Cape buffalo hunt. Maybe it's just me, but I with all of the excitement, I had a hard time making out the bull's ear tags...?

NO!!!! What do you mean charging me you cheeky bastard??!!!! You’re wearing an EARTAG!!!

 

[flatwater bill]

Like Stephen, I was going to stay out of this, but.......despite my limited experience buffalo hunting, I am an expert on SOME things. One of them is change. If you haven't hunted an area for 5, 10 or 20 years, you may find it quite different now. Old data is like re-cycled toilet paper. Do research, get current. One of my "wild, untouched" Africa hunts was punctuated by Govt officials, poachers, new villages and roads, goats, and cute little kids heading off to school. Africa is changing fast. One of my fenced RSA hunts was big, wild, quiet and a lot more natural. Be cautious when an "expert" here generalizes.; or when one of the sage, wise hunters tells you old anecdotes from their hunt 10 years ago. The hunt you want is out there, somewhere. But you will not morph into Count Teleki or Wally Bell based on your location. Booming African populations are getting there too....usually first....FWB

 

[Frederik]

I am going to hunt this weekend and fill my freezer with some venison impala ewes on menu and if I bump into a wartie thats a tusker that will also be getting a lead bullet.
I am going as a family to harvest my meat it is fenced, oh dear! Its only 3 hours drive from my home and I will see stars hear the jackal at night and hunt on a small enclosure of 2500 Acres.
But am I'm really looking forward to this canned hunt.

Everyone else can debate about of what to do or not but I'm going to enjoy my trip see you next week. Or if I can login again don't know if I will have reception on the farm.

 

[IvW]

I will also be heading out but only in june filling the freezers. 20 000 acres high fenved and internal cattle fences 1000 acres each, nine of which influence the game....

Bluewildebeest, kudu, warthog, bushpig and if I manage to track down one of those blue, tuft and big dewlap eland bulls well freezer time.....wish list we have but whatever the bush gives us we will take male or female.....

Fenced or not they taste superb and I have failed on more than one occasion to connect with a giant eland bull and there are no shortage of them....most of the time they are moving faster than what we can track....just the way it is...

Good roads but only every second cattle fence has a track so spot and diesel stalk is not an option, we just use the cruiser to get to a certain section and the wind right and then it is foot work with a backpack and enough water and lunch....

When you shoot something the work begins....hike back.....get the cruiser and drop a fence and choo open a road.....

They taste real good....fences or not....

I always wondered about dudes sitting in a tree stand or blind all day on 100 aces in a populated area waiting for and then shooting a deer....sure is hunting and oh I cannot mentiin that but is free range asbthere arebno fences...

To each there own.....

 

[IvW]

 

[IvW]

And while we are there we will enjoy, the sunsets, the sunrises, the long hard days, the food that we will prepare over open fire ourselves not catered, the baobab trees, the stories around the camp fire, the drinks around same camp fire, the first coffe around same campfire from the pot on said fire.....and for a week we will be in hunters heaven and forget about all the other sh.t we have to deal with especially this Chinese virus BS......yes I said it again BS....