Hunting Buffalo in South Africa vs everywhere else

[BSO Dave]

I would indeed admonish someone for shooting a buffalo with a rifle from a blind at a feeding station or a waterhole. Moreover, I would admonish the outfitter that would condone such practices. I of course would make an exception for someone with a physical disability that precluded a fair chase hunt. Perhaps that was the story here? Doesn't appear to be, but I don't know.

I believe the hunter in the first video was using a handgun... Not a rifle. Regardless, as I said, it's not a hunt I would do, but I feel it would be hypocritical to admonish or disparage anyone who chose to do it..

I find a significant practical, and yes, ethical difference between getting a leopard on bait under shooting conditions and shooting a bull in an enclosure habituated to bailed alfalfa. I suspect most people would.

Wow.. You must explain this one to me.. Does it matter how big the baited enclosure is? What if the fenced property was 15,000 acres? How about 35,00 acres? I'm sorry but bait is bait. The size of the property, or presence of a fence is irrelevant to the advantage gained by drawing a hungry animal into bait. With that said, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with hunting over bait or anyone who does. It is a very effective way, if not the only practical way to take certain game species. But, from the perspective of common sense and reality, I see absolutely no difference, ethical or otherwise, in hunting over white oak raining acorns, or a hide at a water hole versus a brush blind built 50 yards from a tree with a dead impala tied to it that is one of a dozen bait sites monitored by trail cameras for weeks... As sleepy Joe would say, "C'mon man!

Many deer or indeed shot from stands over bait. In the States where that is allowed, it is typically driven by terrain and management practices. Yes, one could make the same argument for a bull buffalo - except everywhere but true jungle, alternative fair chase options exist and are regularly followed by every outfitter with whom I have had an association.

Deer are hunted from stands over food sources where it is legal for no other reason than it is, by far, the most effective way to get game to come into range for ambush with any weapon of choice...Period.. And, the decisions to use those alternative fair chase options should be left up to the individual hunter. The main problem with "ethics" is that they are not standard or universal. They are subjective to human interpretation which is imperfect and biased in itself for a host of reasons.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, I regard rifle hunting as an unfair advantage. However, I think you would take exception if I deemed you an unethical hunter in my view for firing a cannon at an animal from 500 yards away that has no idea that you are even there. I could easily accuse you of sniping, not hunting. But, I would not make that accusation because I understand the nuances of the many forms of hunting.. Again, if we were having this conversation including non-hunters, we would have a hard time justifying how that is not considered "execution" as you put it..

You are correct, it is indeed a slippery slope. And if we don't as zealously protect our ethical values as we do our legal "rights," we will indeed find our sport ever more legally managed. Therefore, I have no issue whatsoever labeling a practice that I find unethical for what it is - regardless of legality. Indeed, I see it as a responsibility. You or anyone else are as free to disagree with that opinion as I am to hold it. I should also note that our two largest hunting organizations have taken similar ethical positions with regard to certain legal "hunting" opportunities in the RSA and elsewhere.

While I certainly agree that we as responsible hunters need to follow certain common ethics, I have a hard time imposing my preferences or my "ethics" on others when they are not breaking the law and the ultimate goals of game management and habitat conservation are the same. I feel we must be able to endure, tolerate, and even support forms of hunting that we personally do not condone for the overall good. Dividing rifle hunters against bow hunters, or dog hunters and deer drivers against still hunters is a dangerous precedent that will be the ultimate demise of hunting altogether.

 

[lwaters]

I think it takes a certain amount of skill to bring a leopard to bait. Would not be to hard to get a Buffalo to come to range cubes.

 

[wesheltonj]

I think it takes a certain amount of skill to bring a leopard to bait. Would not be to hard to get a Buffalo to come to range cubes.

It’s not hard to get any animal to come to range cubes, especially the ones you don’t want to come.

 

[Red Leg]

I believe the hunter in the first video was using a handgun... Not a rifle. Regardless, as I said, it's not a hunt I would do, but I feel it would be hypocritical to admonish or disparage anyone who chose to do it..

Wow.. You must explain this one to me.. Does it matter how big the baited enclosure is? What if the fenced property was 15,000 acres? How about 35,00 acres? I'm sorry but bait is bait. The size of the property, or presence of a fence is irrelevant to the advantage gained by drawing a hungry animal into bait. With that said, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with hunting over bait or anyone who does. It is a very effective way, if not the only practical way to take certain game species. But, from the perspective of common sense and reality, I see absolutely no difference, ethical or otherwise, in hunting over white oak raining acorns, or a hide at a water hole versus a brush blind built 50 yards from a tree with a dead impala tied to it that is one of a dozen bait sites monitored by trail cameras for weeks... As sleepy Joe would say, "C'mon man!

Deer are hunted from stands over food sources where it is legal for no other reason than it is, by far, the most effective way to get game to come into range for ambush with any weapon of choice...Period.. And, the decisions to use those alternative fair chase options should be left up to the individual hunter. The main problem with "ethics" is that they are not standard or universal. They are subjective to human interpretation which is imperfect and biased in itself for a host of reasons.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, I regard rifle hunting as an unfair advantage. However, I think you would take exception if I deemed you an unethical hunter in my view for firing a cannon at an animal from 500 yards away that has no idea that you are even there. I could easily accuse you of sniping, not hunting. But, I would not make that accusation because I understand the nuances of the many forms of hunting.. Again, if we were having this conversation including non-hunters, we would have a hard time justifying how that is not considered "execution" as you put it..


While I certainly agree that we as responsible hunters need to follow certain common ethics, I have a hard time imposing my preferences or my "ethics" on others when they are not breaking the law and the ultimate goals of game management and habitat conservation are the same. I feel we must be able to endure, tolerate, and even support forms of hunting that we personally do not condone for the overall good. Dividing rifle hunters against bow hunters, or dog hunters and deer drivers against still hunters is a dangerous precedent that will be the ultimate demise of hunting altogether.

I think I am quite comfortable with my original response.

 

[Sarg]

I don't think it is that hard to get a Leopard on bait & I believe almost easy in remote wildness zone.
I have been on many Leopards hunts, it is hard to get a certain leopard of interest eg Extra Large (male of course) stock killers in ranch country is difficult but it IS very hard to get a client hunter a leopard for many reasons, staying still (and awake) being ready, finding it in the scope (OMG) & shooting straight, we as PH's tell the hunter it is some thing else but more than half the time it is he/she who has made it difficult !

I don't think shooting leopards from a blind is dangerous either not until it is shot in the middle by a hunter & we need to find it, then super dangerous.

I have only hunted Lions a few times (with out succses) but I also think shooting a Lion from a blind has a lot less danger than tracking, it is far more dangerous hunting captive bred released lions on foot, as a high percentage of the "hunters" are charged !

Just my opinion, sure is hard for us to all be right !

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Isnt there a country in Africa which prohibits shooting at game near waterhole? Which one it is? Or what countries are those?

It is Zimbabwe, it is in the Act. I think it is 100 metres.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

There is no cut and dried in this argument, no black and white. Closely enclosing or habituating an animal in any way, manner or form is gaining an advantage. You are luring it from the wild, therefore it is no longer fair chase per se.
Pure virgin stalk where you just head out and try to pick something up, is the other extreme.
Then the grey middle ground is where one might use a known path, pick up tracks from a water hole or a favourite feeding spot.
I personally would be happy with the second two, but not the first. The possible exception is baiting leopard, not on my list, but a topic for debate.

 

[revturbo9967]

When speaking of baiting, I believe there is a difference between true baiting, and feeding an animal to lure to the shot. Here in the North East US, many bear hunts are conducted over bait. Why? If you left baiting out of the equation your shot opportunity goes out the window, leaving everything to chance. North East bears are very hard to pattern like a deer. They're primarily nocturnal and really don't show themselves during the daylight. You normally cant find a game trial and set up over natural food like a deer either. I would assume this is the same for any large cat in Africa. (again I say assume, I know nothing about hunting in Africa) In my opinion, which means nothing on here, there is quite a difference to bait an animal to get it to come out of its comfort zone so you can even get a look at it, vs dropping a pile of food down so you can pick from a heard. That is my view anyways.

Baiting animals is never a given shot opportunity. I have sat on baits for hours only to see a trail camera picture days later of bears coming within 50 yards and walking right on by the bait. I've seen Leopard videos of this as well. The animals know this is not natural. They know its bad news. Yes you introduced a luring method, but it is still chance. If it was a given shot on every baiting experience, then most outfits would have only one baiting site rather then 4-10+. I guess what I'm leaning towards are some animals require baiting in order to hunt them, and some animals do not.

 

[PARA45]

I went to Africa to hunt, not to shoot. In the states we hunt whitetail & hogs over bait, and even though we had some great looking deer on camera, my friend and I did not see them during the day. We both took does this year. We also only hunt on a 200 acre property, which half are fields and the other half woods. Very difficult to stalk and hunt deer on foot.

 

[Tanks]

Wow.. You must explain this one to me.. Does it matter how big the baited enclosure is? What if the fenced property was 15,000 acres? How about 35,00 acres? I'm sorry but bait is bait. The size of the property, or presence of a fence is irrelevant to the advantage gained by drawing a hungry animal into bait. With that said, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with hunting over bait or anyone who does. It is a very effective way, if not the only practical way to take certain game species. But, from the perspective of common sense and reality, I see absolutely no difference, ethical or otherwise, in hunting over white oak raining acorns, or a hide at a water hole versus a brush blind built 50 yards from a tree with a dead impala tied to it that is one of a dozen bait sites monitored by trail cameras for weeks...

I think there is quite a difference between a feed lot with hay and plumbed water as it was in the first video and baiting a leopard with game that is shot by the hunter (though pre-baiting does occur at an extra cost for a few days). I also don't know of any outfit that baits a dozen sites for weeks and I did a lot of research for my upcoming leopard hunt. It also is not a given that the client will get his leopard.

 

[IvW]

I think there is quite a difference between a feed lot with hay and plumbed water as it was in the first video and baiting a leopard with game that is shot by the hunter (though pre-baiting does occur at an extra cost for a few days). I also don't know of any outfit that baits a dozen sites for weeks and I did a lot of research for my upcoming leopard hunt. It also is not a given that the client will get his leopard.

No point in overbaiting as large male leopard have to move around to patrol home territory.

Keeping some baits over a longer period is viable though.

You will often hear that a large male leopard is on bait everyday for a week and then dissapears the day the client arives or just before....he is still around but had to leave to do his rounds just the way it is....

 

[MRBlack]

I have been fortunate to hunt buffalo in the Caprivi, the Zambezi Delta of Mozambique, and the Limpopo of South Africa. All were very fulfilling experiences. Given a choice, I would return to the Caprivi or Mozambique for my next one. The wild places are indeed wild places. However, my South African hunt with Phillip Bronkhorst was a great hunt. If you do decide to go the South African route, make sure you do your homework. Put and take operations do, unfortunately, exist for Cape Buffalo. But the vast majority outfitters will offer animals living on large enough farms that they are a self-sustaining resource.

SOUTH AFRICA: Up Close In The Limpopo - Hunting Cape Buffalo With Phillip Bronkhorst

The morning started like many buffalo hunts anywhere with the fresh tracks of a small herd crossing a dirt trace cut through the bush. Phillip Bronkhorst, Pieter Taylor (one of Phillip's PHs), our tracker Josias, Rickey (a young videographer in training), and your faithful correspondent bailed...

www.africahunting.com

I have not yet been fortunate enough to hunt dangerous game, but I have hunted with Philip Bronkhorst Safaris. I was there for plains game in May/June 2019. I cannot say enough good things. The camp is first rate and the all of the staff are real professionals. I would hunt with them again in a heartbeat.
I know this isn’t a direct answer to the OP, but I wanted to be another recommendation for PB Safaris, if you do decide to hunt South Africa.

 

[1dirthawker]

In fairness, and having been politely reminded by @375Fox, my Caprivi experience was a decade ago. Like everywhere, I shouldn't be surprised that human activity and modernization have taken their toll in recent years.

as red leg noted above, things change.

i have very little experience hunting buffalo, shot exactly one. so keep that in mind in my answer. one of my big concerns about buffalo hunting was that sooner was better than later. because it seems thing change rapidly in Africa; government, weather patterns, covid, even knees and hips! i wanted to get there before even the Africa of today might be different in 5 or 10 years.

also, i am not a guy that can afford to go to africa every or every other year, so, it needed to be done properly, at least in my mind. and THAT i think is the big thing. the hunter is the one with the expectations, so if buffalo hunting to him is hunting the big herds in the swamps of mozambique then that is exactly what should be done. if hunting in hill country, or flats is what you have in you mind to do then THAT is proper buffalo hunting for you.

hunting these beasts is addictive and i wish i could hunt them every year. i had a great time with my PH and my companions on the trip. i personally would not have changed a thing.

as noted earlier, you can easily get a great hunt in SA. if you want to hunt a wild place, that too can be done, just going to cost you more. the logistics of having food, beer, etc in wild places just cost the PH and therefore every one else more time and money.

so my suggestion is, do some legwork (which at this website should be VERY easy) and book a hunt sooner rather than later......because things change quickly in life.

 

[BSO Dave]

I think there is quite a difference between a feed lot with hay and plumbed water as it was in the first video and baiting a leopard with game that is shot by the hunter (though pre-baiting does occur at an extra cost for a few days). I also don't know of any outfit that baits a dozen sites for weeks and I did a lot of research for my upcoming leopard hunt. It also is not a given that the client will get his leopard.

With all respect to your opinion, you see a difference because you are viewing this through your own personal perspective rather than an objective one. You are making the argument that an animal which has been conditioned over time to come to any kind of bait or water that has been placed by a humans is somehow different than a meat bait placed in a tree that has also been placed by humans simply because the bait itself was shot was shot by the hunter? What does that have to do with anything? Baiting plainsgame animals with hay to walk in front of a hide is exactly the same concept as hanging meat in a tree to get a leopard to jump in it. Other than personal feelings on the matter, no one has yet to offer an objective argument to explain exactly how the ideology of the two baiting scenarios are different. If we are being honest with ourselves, the reason is because that they are no different. How we personally choose to rationalize it our own minds is the difference.

The fact that the leopard may or may mot be taken is irrelevant to the discussion. Baiting is the act of placing a lure (or placing the hunter adjacent to a natural lure) for the sole purpose of bringing an animal to a location of choice. Period.. The type of bait used, how it was acquired, how many sites have been baited, or how long the baiting has occurred is quite irrelevant to the overall objective and desired outcome which is to bring an animal to a desired location to kill it. The idea that baiting with a different type of bait, or for a shorter period of time makes the practice more ethical, sporting, or fair chase, is nonsensical.

And, in regard to pre-baiting multiple sites for days or weeks prior to the hunters arrival, you are probably right that very few outfitter actually do that. I would assume that only the most successful ones do..

 

[375Fox]

With all respect to your opinion, you see a difference because you are viewing this through your own personal perspective rather than an objective one. You are making the argument that an animal which has been conditioned over time to come to any kind of bait or water that has been placed by a humans is somehow different than a meat bait placed in a tree that has also been placed by humans simply because the bait itself was shot was shot by the hunter? What does that have to do with anything? Baiting plainsgame animals with hay to walk in front of a hide is exactly the same concept as hanging meat in a tree to get a leopard to jump in it. Other than personal feelings on the matter, no one has yet to offer an objective argument to explain exactly how the ideology of the two baiting scenarios are different. If we are being honest with ourselves, the reason is because that they are no different. How we personally choose to rationalize it our own minds is the difference.

The fact that the leopard may or may mot be taken is irrelevant to the discussion. Baiting is the act of placing a lure (or placing the hunter adjacent to a natural lure) for the sole purpose of bringing an animal to a location of choice. Period.. The type of bait used, how it was acquired, how many sites have been baited, or how long the baiting has occurred is quite irrelevant to the overall objective and desired outcome which is to bring an animal to a desired location to kill it. The idea that baiting with a different type of bait, or for a shorter period of time makes the practice more ethical, sporting, or fair chase, is nonsensical.

And, in regard to pre-baiting multiple sites for days or weeks prior to the hunters arrival, you are probably right that very few outfitter actually do that. I would assume that only the most successful ones do..

I’ve never seen videos of wild leopards excited to chase the truck bringing in new bait. There is a line between farming and wild you are choosing to ignore. Have you hunted unfenced areas outside of South Africa?

 

[Tanks]

.... Baiting is the act of placing a lure (or placing the hunter adjacent to a natural lure) for the sole purpose of bringing an animal to a location of choice. Period..

I'll submit that the feed lot operation we saw on the first video is not really baiting per se. Animals are enclosed by fence and have a regular place to go to eat and drink. Any so called hunting there is shooting fish in a barrel. That environment is not any different than many cattle raising operations.

Is the 30-40% discount in cost from a wild buffalo hunt worth it for someone? That is a personal decision. After all people back home looking at your trophy are not going to know that you shot Bruce, the buffalo instead of a wild buffalo.

 

[Aaron N]

I'll submit that the feed lot operation we saw on the first video is not really baiting per se. Animals are enclosed by fence and have a regular place to go to eat and drink. Any so called hunting there is shooting fish in a barrel. That environment is not any different than many cattle raising operations.

Is the 30-40% discount in cost from a wild buffalo hunt worth it for someone? That is a personal decision. After all people back home looking at your trophy are not going to know that you shot Bruce, the buffalo instead of a wild buffalo.

Don’t shoot anything named, tame or not....

 

[Red Leg]

I'll submit that the feed lot operation we saw on the first video is not really baiting per se. Animals are enclosed by fence and have a regular place to go to eat and drink. Any so called hunting there is shooting fish in a barrel. That environment is not any different than many cattle raising operations.

Is the 30-40% discount in cost from a wild buffalo hunt worth it for someone? That is a personal decision. After all people back home looking at your trophy are not going to know that you shot Bruce, the buffalo instead of a wild buffalo.

Whenever an outfitter advertises a particular spectacular animal is available (and nothing wrong with that - if I had a past its prime breeding age SCI gold medal Wolfadingawompass and someone wanted to pay a premium for that particular animal and shoot him - more power to both of us). However, my personal reaction is to assume he probably does indeed have a name.

There are a number of great buffalo hunting opportunities in South Africa. There are also a few like the feeding station ambush above. Just do some homework. I somehow suspect if Fred the buffalo killer is sitting with his friends at the bar in somewhere USA, the description of his buffalo kill won't include a feed lot.

 

[C.W. Richter]

From the bottom of my heart I believe that most people should definitely hunt sincerus in the RSA, and the rest of us can enjoy the hard trophy hunting elsewhere. Book now don't delay!!!

 

[Bivy]

Certainly gathering information from the members of this forum is beneficial; the collective knowledge is grand and opinions with support cover the entire spectrum. That being said, most of us have a vision of what African hunting is, what buffalo hunt is, what kudu hunting is, etc. The source of imprinting ranges from old literature, modern literature, forums, video media, etc. Ultimately, to have a satisfactory experience, it comes down to introspection--what is your vision of a buffalo hunt?

Answer these questions and rank by importance:
a. Self-sustaining without supplementation, Self-sustaining with supplementation, Stocked?
b. What is the perfect bull--old, wide, broken, high-scoring?
c. Hunting method--Tracking, Spot and Stalk, Stand, etc.?
d. Odds of success? Odds of evaluating lots of bulls? Odds of seeing buffalo?
e. What do I desire to bring home-- skull and cape or pictures?
f. What accommodations do I require? Would my family be coming along?
g. My level of physical fitness potentially limits me from? hiking 5-10 miles? Low heat tolerance?
h. Would I like to experience local culture?
i. Am I concerned about malaria or teste flies?

Those certainly aren't all the questions, but a few that come to mind. If I was to answer and rank:
1) Hunting Method - Tracking
2) Trophy Potential - Old, hard-bossed bulls alone or in bachelor groups
3) High Odds of pursuing tracks daily
4) Self-sustaining with or within supplementation
5) Pictures or Horns/Cape returning home
6) Important to be exposed to local culture, dialect, traditions, and customs
7) And to wrap up the final three...if the first four exist, I will lay on the ground and eat Mountain House while mosquitos attempt to carry me away.

Based on those criteria, if I could only hunt one buffalo, I would probably look at Mozambique, Namibia/Caprivi, Zambia, Tanzania, etc. Prices are going to vary wildly in these countries--what's my budget? My budget might rule out Zambia, Tanzania, exportable Namibia bulls, trophy-class APNR South Africa hunts. So I'm left with Mozambique, Zimbabwe, non-exportable Namibia, South Africa Reserves/Private Farms. These hunts fit into my hunt budget, but what about my total budget? Visa required? Charter required? Domestic flights? Hotels? Export/Dip and Pack expenses? That might rule out Mozambique. Now I've narrowed in down to a handful of options and I can book and commit to a hunt 1-2 years in advance. Or, if I have flexibility in the workplace, I can sit on my budget and keep an eye out for cancellations or late-season opportunities that might open up countries, areas and/or operators previously outside my budget.

Personally, I'm young and I plan on hunting several buffalo. My one buffalo was a fun, rewarding hunt, although I certainly didn't find it nearly as physically demanding as a public land Western U.S. elk hunt or anymore dangerous than breaking down a bull in grizzly country. I was fascinated by the tracking, and even more so by the teamwork involved. When you track any animal over miles and then successfully take the animal, it is the team's buffalo, eland, kudu, etc. I'm heading to Niassa in October to hunt buffalo again. I'm thinking about hunting one in Namibia in 2023. And, I'm shooting for Uganda in 2025. I feel like all of these countries can fulfill my vision of buffalo hunting. I also plan on hunting a buffalo in South Africa; however, I'm delaying South Africa because I think it will be there is 10 years while other hunting areas might be gone.

No matter what...establish a concrete budget, try to make it to a big convention in your area that allows you to talk with lots of operators, trust your gut, and set dates sooner rather than later. You will have a fantastic time.